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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2017-07-07

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11:27 juhdanad Is it possible to debug a mod in an IDE? (use breakpoints, read variables etc...)
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14:14 KaadmY Should type casts be "joined" when their parent variable?
14:14 KaadmY Ie. `float x = (float)otherNumber`
14:14 KaadmY Or `float x = (float) otherNumber`
14:15 KaadmY The code I'm looking at uses the former
14:15 KaadmY And I don't think the style guidelines mention that
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14:16 KaadmY Hullo
14:16 paramat our code uses joined
14:16 KaadmY Okay
14:26 paramat an idea for more intuitive crafting recipes for inner/outer stairs https://github.com/minetest/minetest_​game/pull/1820#issuecomment-313696928
14:31 KaadmY Having a builtin microblock system would be so awesome
14:31 KaadmY So you could make block "schematics" with a 2x2x2 grid
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15:05 VanessaE paramat: you might consider "splitting" the faces on the foot of the stairs as is done with the top.
15:05 VanessaE so that the wood grain bevels together
15:13 paramat i'm not sure if that graphic is of MT, i'll check what the PR does
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15:19 VanessaE oh ok
15:20 VanessaE still, it's easily done
15:21 VanessaE if you wanted to be fancy-schmancy, you'd add a second material to the model that looks like it' overlaid on the diagonal seam :)  (that way wooden stairs could have an extra strip of wood over the seam, bricks could have a line of mortar, etc)
15:21 VanessaE it's*
15:22 VanessaE (well, tumeninodes would have to do that rather)
15:24 paramat GreenXenith made the .obj models for the PR, guess it would be texture-wrap stuff
15:24 VanessaE nah it's easier than that
15:25 VanessaE I'll put a comment in the PR
15:26 paramat ok
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15:27 juhdanad Any thoughts on #5717?
15:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5717 -- Reserve `param1` for lighting
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15:29 kilbith MT appears to be blurred on a HiDPI screen :(
15:30 juhdanad Pixellated, or evenly blurred?
15:30 kilbith both I think
15:31 juhdanad Maybe you enabled bilinear filtering on the options pane?
15:31 kilbith nope, fresh install
15:32 juhdanad Are the edges of the nodes sharp?
15:32 kilbith and the cursor ain't locked, camera keeps moving
15:32 kilbith no, I'm telling you I have *not* enabled any filtering
15:33 kilbith seriously, I'm not a random Joe
15:33 juhdanad I mean: only the textures are blurred, or the geometry is also blurred?
15:33 kilbith a screenshot will speak better
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15:36 kilbith crap, even in full-maxed window, the resolution remains low
15:37 kilbith this means I have to click n pixels aside a button to click it
15:37 kilbith see what I mean?
15:38 juhdanad Yes: the contents of the window are the same size as before, and there is an empty border between the old and new window frame.
15:39 kilbith yes
15:40 kilbith https://lut.im/O2fmo23KeG/nuzZNSeGa2sIBJlh.png
15:40 juhdanad But then it is not blurred, but has wrong size, right?
15:40 kilbith this is more crappy than this screenshot
15:40 kilbith I set a window size of 1920x1024
15:41 kilbith on a 13 inches screen
15:41 KaadmY Probably non power of two?
15:41 KaadmY And do you have undersampling?
15:42 kilbith no
15:42 kilbith NPOT only applies to opengl 1.x
15:42 juhdanad kilbith: The image you posted is sharp.
15:42 kilbith no really it looks like crap from there
15:43 KaadmY Hm?
15:43 juhdanad Did you make the screenshot with f12?
15:43 kilbith yes
15:43 juhdanad Then it is really the negine's problem.
15:43 juhdanad *engine
15:44 kilbith the screenshot makes it render nice
15:44 kilbith https://lut.im/H5IyAbxCsJ/NVKXszkAZ3usyx5g.png
15:44 juhdanad The screenshot should be the same size as your window.
15:44 kilbith here on the screenshot you don't see the aliasing on the text
15:44 kilbith no, it assures you it looks different in game
15:45 kilbith err, s/it/I
15:45 juhdanad For some reason Minetest renders to a 1280x666 pixel large canvas, then stretches it to your screen.
15:46 kilbith do you have a HiDPI screen anyway?
15:46 juhdanad No, mine is smaller.
15:47 kilbith ubuntu is (partly) fucked on a such screen as well
15:49 juhdanad What if you resize your window to be smaller?
15:50 kilbith the issues remain
15:51 juhdanad And does the screenshot become smaller?
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15:54 kilbith I've managed to take a screenshot with Win10
15:54 kilbith https://lut.im/4um98iUwns/tQ0DddzKVSsLb0q6.png
15:54 kilbith see the text is fucked
15:54 kilbith images are aliased
15:56 kilbith conclusion: MT doesn't fit to the modern anymore
15:56 kilbith *modern world
15:57 juhdanad Still, could you make a screenshot with F12 when your window is small?
15:57 kilbith no, F12 cheats with the actual rendering I'm seeing
15:57 kilbith while the screenshot tool from Win10 doesn't
15:58 kilbith and on a small window the issues persist
15:58 juhdanad I just would like to know if the size of the screenshot depends on the window size.
15:58 juhdanad And if yes, how.
15:59 kilbith alright
16:02 kilbith well apparently not
16:02 kilbith window size of 800x600: https://lut.im/dfO0apUoZA/bWEBdFgnuSh85SzJ.png
16:03 juhdanad But your first screenshot (1280x666) was smaller than your window size, right?
16:04 kilbith still fuscked up: https://lut.im/QZvMPRVdko/7Z9vdaoqIvnD11hV.png
16:04 kilbith juhdanad, yes
16:04 kilbith no idea why
16:04 juhdanad I'm looking at the code...
16:05 kilbith be back later, will attempt a Fedora install
16:07 VanessaE if text is blurry, wouldn't that suggest a problem with the desktop environment or font rendering outside of minetest?
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16:07 juhdanad I don't think, as the screenshot size is not matched to the window size.
16:08 VanessaE fair enough (this is why I use printscreen, then I can be 100% sure that what I share is what I actually see)
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16:10 juhdanad This mismatch indicares a bug in the rendering engine.
16:10 juhdanad *indicates
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16:12 juhdanad Half-done inventory overlays: http://imgur.com/a/QOZBv
16:12 VanessaE nice
16:12 kilbith VanessaE: everything is fucked, not only the text
16:13 VanessaE kilbith: can you take a whole screenshot?  minetest window at like 90% of the screen size or something, with desktop visible behind it?
16:13 VanessaE i.e. alt-printscreen or whatever the key is
16:13 kilbith even gtk2 windows are fucked
16:14 kilbith VanessaE: why would you want to see the desktop
16:14 juhdanad kilbith: maybe you could try an other renderer?
16:15 VanessaE I actually don't care about the desktop, but doing so gives us a base for comparison
16:15 kilbith well opengl is the only viable option
16:15 VanessaE because we can also see the window decorations and so on
16:16 VanessaE I mean if gtk rendering is similarly messed up, I'm having a hard time blaming minetest :)
16:16 kilbith gtk **2** doesn't support HiDPI
16:17 kilbith free softwares badly support newer hardware
16:17 VanessaE when I last checked, it was up to your OS and its graphics rendering to handle that
16:17 kilbith no, it also depends on the GUI framework
16:18 VanessaE minetest you can easily set the GUI scale to 2x or something, if your screen is so high-def, but I use 1600x1200 screens here with zero rendering problems, so unless you're going far higher, well...
16:18 kilbith only gtk3 and qt5 support hidpi
16:19 juhdanad In your minetest.conf, is screen_w and screen_h correct?
16:19 kilbith it's proportionally a 4K screen on a 15.6 screen
16:20 kilbith juhdanad: yes, set to 1920x1024 currently
16:21 kilbith fullscreen is also fucked
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16:25 KaadmY Is completely dropping the CPU lighting pipeline an option at all?
16:25 KaadmY In favor of GPU lighting and shading?
16:26 KaadmY Most people are CPU bottlenecked now anyway
16:26 KaadmY And shaders shouldn't be a performance issue
16:26 KaadmY Even on mobile devices, shaders are probably faster than mass CPU calculations
16:27 juhdanad KaadmY: the problem is that in Minetest you can easily place 10000 light sources.
16:27 juhdanad Traditional lighting does not help there.
16:27 red-045 depends on what you mean by completely
16:27 red-045 even if we use traditinal lighting
16:28 KaadmY red-045: shaders always-on, all lighting on the GPU
16:28 KaadmY Minus torches and light sources maybe
16:28 red-045 we still need to calculate lighting vaules
16:28 VanessaE juhdanad, KaadmY there's also the problem of being able to read the lighting
16:28 KaadmY Since passing a crapton of lights to the GPU is slow
16:28 KaadmY red-045: yes, that still
16:28 VanessaE i.e. mods need to read param1 sometimes, or get_light() or whatever the call is
16:28 KaadmY But meshgen only happens when the mesh changes, ie. dig or place stuff
16:28 KaadmY You'd still need to propogate lighting CPU-side for mods
16:29 red-045 and if you add nice directional lighting and all which I assume is why you want this
16:29 KaadmY Yes
16:29 KaadmY t
16:29 red-045 then the ligthing the user sees will not be consistent with what mods see
16:29 KaadmY Just curious, because most people are CPU bottlenecked but we still do almost everything CPU-side even though we can almost do everything GPU-side already
16:30 KaadmY red-045: light falloff can be very custom
16:30 VanessaE the problem is servers don't have GPUs.
16:30 juhdanad But if you remove torches and light sources, only the sun can cast directional light.
16:30 KaadmY VanessaE: I think I've said like twice that you'd still need to calculate light propagation on the CPU
16:30 KaadmY :P
16:30 juhdanad (this is what MC shader packs implement, if I remember well)
16:30 VanessaE KaadmY: so this makes three times :P
16:30 KaadmY Yep :D
16:31 juhdanad kilbith: I have no idea why Minetest is blurred, sorry.
16:31 red-001 http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2016-01-23
16:32 kilbith well, I'm rather sorry for you to play with this shit
16:32 juhdanad For me it runs well.
16:32 paramat there has been a huge amount of talk about hardware lighting in this channel in the past, especially RBA and hmmmm, it's very non-trivial. RBA's idea was a mix of CPU / light level and GPU
16:33 kilbith if I wasn't a professional, MT would have been only a souvenir
16:34 KaadmY Well I've been trying to implement this since yesterday
16:34 KaadmY And every time I'm blocked by Minetest's codebase
16:34 KaadmY This is the 3rd method I've been trying to get around problems with state
16:35 KaadmY BTW couldn't you use the vertex color to pass the light level to the shaders?
16:35 KaadmY Since they're not used for actual coloring anymore
16:35 juhdanad Vertex colors do pass the light level to the shaders, in a compressed format.
16:36 KaadmY As alpha?
16:36 KaadmY The main problem I'm having right now is disabling CPU shading if shaders are enabled
16:37 KaadmY But there's no global state I can use to save shader state without g_settings, which is too inefficient and a bad idea anyway
16:38 red-045 which file are you working in?
16:38 KaadmY mesh.cpp, content_mapblock.cpp, mapblock_mesh.cpp, game.cpp, nodes_shader/opengl_vertex.glsl
16:39 KaadmY And content_mapblock.h, mapblock_mesh.h
16:39 red-045 why does it need to be global?
16:39 KaadmY Because the lighting functions are global for some reason and no shader context is passed in
16:39 KaadmY In mesh.cpp:43
16:40 KaadmY Currently even if shaders are on, shading is CPU-side and baked into the vertex colors
16:40 juhdanad Kaadmy: if you enable shaders, light is calculated on the GPU.
16:41 KaadmY juhdanad: nope
16:41 KaadmY Try commenting out that function's contents
16:41 KaadmY And enable shaders
16:42 red-001 GameGlobalShaderConstantSetter?
16:43 juhdanad You misunderstood that function! That is for making certain faces of nodes slightly darker, it has nothing to do with shaders!
16:43 KaadmY juhdanad: but that should be GPU side, but it's always CPU side anyway
16:43 KaadmY All the GPU currently does in terms of lighting is day/night lighting
16:44 juhdanad Yes, this is the only thing that is dynamic in a map block. The other things are static.
16:46 juhdanad The vertex format is: alpha=day light/all light; r, g, b=(day light+night light)/2
16:53 KaadmY Is it too messy to have a global function pointer that I swap out for another function if shaders are enabled?
16:54 KaadmY That would probably be by far the fastest solution
16:54 KaadmY But also one of the messiest
16:56 juhdanad I suggest you to do it as you can, then when you make a PR, devs will request some changes anyways.
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17:33 KaadmY Yay using a global function pointer swap works beautifully
17:33 KaadmY It doesn't work if you change it ingame though, dunno if that's good or bad
17:34 juhdanad I'm happy to read that.
17:34 KaadmY Yeah shaders don't update normally either if you change them while ingame
17:44 paramat #5748 is updated and fixed, can anyone review?
17:44 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5748 -- Underwater plantlike drawtype by numberZero
17:45 juhdanad paramat: I have rebased #4421, thanks for your support! However, I don't see why you added the two approvals label.
17:45 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4421 -- Expose getPointedThing() as Raycast by juhdanad
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17:54 paramat erm ..
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17:55 paramat zeno and smalljoker +1
17:56 juhdanad Yes, really, I did not see Zeno's approval.
17:56 paramat nerzhul said it doesn't have to wait for the CSM stuff so it can be merged
17:56 juhdanad That is waiting for a long time to be merged...
17:57 paramat i'll merge it tonight
17:57 juhdanad It is hard to create a client-sided object reference system, and would make the PR more complicated.
17:57 paramat yeah
17:59 paramat sfan5 #5533 is updated, could you check it? it seems you might (or might not) have issues with it
17:59 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5533 -- Sneak: Strip down version by SmallJoker
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18:08 paramat i'll merge #6103 #4421 within 2 hours
18:08 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6103 -- Mapgen Carpathian: Add lava_depth parameter by vlapsley
18:08 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4421 -- Expose getPointedThing() as Raycast by juhdanad
18:13 KaadmY Who made the carpathian mapgen?
18:13 KaadmY I haven't heard of it until it got merged a few days ago
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18:21 * red-001 was hoping deepbook was going to be book`
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18:33 numzero does anyone work on RenderingEngine now?
18:34 numzero nerzhul? I remember you refactored that recently.
18:36 paramat the new mapgen is by vlapsley
18:37 KaadmY Never heard of them
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18:47 Noxarivis[m] Why does the worldgen make dungeons?
18:52 paramat c55 coded them into early MT
18:53 juhdanad The real question is: why are dungeons empty?
18:54 nerzhul numzero, yes ofc
18:54 nerzhul juhdanad, dungeons should be improved to add more fun, add mines can be nice too
18:55 juhdanad Exploding mines in dungeons? Cool!
18:55 KaadmY Dungeons should be dangerous but rewarding
18:55 KaadmY Hm good idea juhdanad :P
18:55 juhdanad (I was joking)
18:55 KaadmY Having random trip mines in dungeons :P
18:56 juhdanad I think nerzhul meant long shafts with ores by 'mines'
18:56 KaadmY Basically long shafts?
18:57 juhdanad Yes.
19:02 paramat as far as i know early MT had mobs by default that would appear in dungeons, maybe dungeon loot too (not sure)
19:05 paramat but now mobs and loot are optional mods
19:09 KaadmY Oerkki and Dungeon Masters
19:10 juhdanad VanessaE, are you there?
19:13 paramat Krock please could you review/approve game#1820 ? code is good and is tested. ideally i'd like to merge it later tonight with game#1818
19:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1820 -- Add corner stair nodes 4 by TumeniNodes
19:13 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1818 -- Saplings: Reduce grow time to ABM equivalent by paramat
19:13 paramat once merged i plan to add a dedicated placement function for the inner/outer stairs
19:17 numzero nerzhul, so you continue cleaning RenderingEngine, right? I won’t touch it now then.
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19:36 sfan5 paramat: loot should not be an optional mod tho
19:36 sfan5 minetest_game is too boring
19:36 red-001 &
19:36 red-001 ^
19:37 KaadmY ^
19:37 KaadmY ^
19:37 KaadmY ^
19:38 paramat dungeon loot would be good, just a case of someone writing a PR (i'm busy enough)
19:41 paramat i think there's a mod in the forum, maybe by blockmen
19:44 kilbith so MT w/ a HiDPI screen on linux looks barely fine with a lot of tweaks
19:45 kilbith the HUD images are not scaled though
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19:52 nerzhul numzero, what do you want to do ?
19:52 nerzhul numzero, i will continue some PR to move things to the RenderingEngine singleton class yes, i don't think this evening
19:52 numzero some refactoring
19:52 numzero and postprocessing, but refactoring seems to be more important now
19:52 nerzhul juhdanad, i mean gold mines :D
19:52 nerzhul not exploding mines :p
19:53 numzero :D
19:53 numzero nerzhul, which PR?
19:55 nerzhul no pr atm
19:55 numzero nvm
19:56 nerzhul numzero, for postprocessing what do you want to have in RenderingEngine ?
19:56 nerzhul Device and Driver are mainly in RenderingEngine singleton atm
19:57 nerzhul only Game have the real pointer too for Device, for Driver some other class but this can be moved in future pr. I will focus on guiEnv and master scene in future pr
19:59 juhdanad nerzhul: there are still some files which do not use RenderingEngine, for example wieldmesh.cpp
20:00 juhdanad (I just didn't know if you were aware of that)
20:00 nerzhul juhdanad, yes wieldmesh has a specific thing
20:00 juhdanad A specific thing?
20:01 nerzhul i can't remember what but it was normal if i didn't do it atm because i depend on another thing if i remember
20:01 nerzhul (on week ago i'm lazy :p)
20:01 numzero er, want to have? I will need Driver, shader access (don’t remember which class gives that), and will need to keep some textures in the RenederingEngine (similar to current undersampling or stereo rendering, but want it to be cleaner)
20:02 nerzhul ShaderSrc
20:02 nerzhul which can be a singleton too attached to Rendering Engine
20:02 numzero but the main concern is that adding postprocessing changes code path significantly
20:02 numzero so conflicts with refactoring
20:02 nerzhul texturesrc can be a singleton too (cf celeron55)
20:03 nerzhul where is your part ?
20:06 numzero depends
20:07 numzero I want it to be supported for all modes (to move some code to postprocessing), but before refactoring that means writing everything here and there, in all these draw_* methods
20:07 nerzhul if you want to refactor RenderingEngine::draw_* you are free :)
20:08 numzero as I have other things to do, I’d prefer refactoring to be done first
20:08 numzero er...
20:08 numzero oh, okay
20:09 numzero will do that (not now, I’m lazy too =)
20:10 numzero one question: won’t you mind if 3d modes will require shaders?
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20:28 KaadmY In a shader, how do you figure out a vertex's position relative to the camera?
20:29 juhdanad There is a global vector which tells the camera position.
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20:29 KaadmY Which?
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20:32 juhdanad I think m_eye_position_vertex
20:33 KaadmY In the shader?
20:33 juhdanad No, sorry, it is eyePosition.
20:34 Hijiri #6108 what does "real overlay support" mean? Does this mean that using overlay texture modifiers doesn't make a new texture for the combined texture?
20:34 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6108 -- Make crack an overlay
20:34 KaadmY Ah
20:34 Hijiri Or is there a special setting for node overlays now
20:34 juhdanad In minetest/client/shaders/nodes_shader/vertex.glsl you can find an example.
20:34 KaadmY opengl_vertex.glsl*
20:34 juhdanad Hijiri: what kind of setting?
20:34 Hijiri I don't know
20:35 Hijiri Is the issue referencing the stuff described in "Soft texture overlay" in the docs?
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20:36 Hijiri I think it is, nevermind
20:37 KaadmY Gah, no matter what I'm doing the specular highlight is always in screen space
20:38 juhdanad Screen space?
20:39 Hijiri will mods be able to register nodes with different specular coefficients?
20:39 KaadmY Well specular has to work first
20:39 KaadmY For now I'll just hardcode specular to a sane value
20:39 KaadmY Just to add a bit of depth to geometry
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21:02 VanessaE juhdanad: what's up?
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21:04 juhdanad Is game#1784 still valid?
21:04 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1784 -- Crash problem in beds mod, bad `param2` values
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21:06 VanessaE looking at mt_game commits, nothing jumps out at me as something that would have fixed it
21:06 VanessaE I assume it's still valid yeah
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21:13 paramat yes game1784 is not fixed yet
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21:24 paramat will merge #4421 #6103 in a moment
21:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4421 -- Expose getPointedThing() as Raycast by juhdanad
21:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6103 -- Mapgen Carpathian: Add lava_depth parameter by vlapsley
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21:28 kilbith http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2017-06-29#i_4993629
21:28 kilbith ^ this question has not been answered yet
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21:34 paramat merging
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21:39 sfan5 paramat: i'll try to look at stripped down sneak soon, however i'll be on holiday
21:40 sfan5 also a question
21:40 paramat merged
21:40 paramat ok
21:40 sfan5 do you think it would be beneficial to be able to restrict csm on a per-player basis?
21:41 nerzhul sfan5, i think it's overkill to have a such feature. Many server side features are globally limited
21:41 sfan5 well dunno
21:41 sfan5 a server admin might want to use oredetect
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21:43 paramat doesn't seem important to have
21:44 sfan5 i don't see any downside
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21:48 paramat maybe no downside, but i think the work and code needs justification, and i don't see much yet
21:50 paramat a server admin could use a serverside oredetect mod
21:50 sfan5 true
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21:54 nerzhul flavour require more directions to be finished & merged
21:54 red-001 can always be implemented latter if there is a demand for it
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