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IRC log for #minetest-dev, 2017-08-30

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Time Nick Message
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01:54 paramat game#1881
01:54 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1881 -- Add telescope mod by paramat
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05:14 jas_ two good reasons to avoid damage/respawn (map/telescope items) ^5
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06:09 nerzhul hello ! merging #6346
06:09 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6346 -- Remove DSTACK support by nerzhul
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09:56 jas_ I can't make an item_wear bar for a node?  I ask because I can't use a mesh for a wielditem (warps:warpstone).
09:58 jas_ http://imgur.com/fv52jtb <-- the item in question, which is a placable node, needs an item_wear bar on its inventory display, just like the sword to its right.  problem is, i can't make a tool use a mesh?  so this is the only way to display this wield image? (can have mesh wielditem if node, but not if tool?)  -- i wanted to make an issue on tracker, but wanted to ask first
09:59 jas_ get_wear() returns 0 if non-tool.  https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L3553
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12:54 Wuzzy hi
12:54 Wuzzy i have a comment about the new "early sunrise" thingie
12:55 Wuzzy when you start a new world, the sun is rising
12:55 Wuzzy frankly, i don't like this because the sky doesn't have the full brightness yet
12:56 Wuzzy If you use time_speed=0 (like me) this means you will have lower brightness by default for new worlds. which is annoying
12:56 Wuzzy I suggest to start the game a little bit later (maybe 6000?) so new worlds always start at full birightness
12:56 Wuzzy do you agree?
13:03 juhdanad I think mods can also set the time when the world is first loaded, right?
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14:04 Wuzzy i am arguing about a sane default setting. i hate it when im forced to used mods to fix a rotten core
14:05 CalebDavis make it settable as a setting problem solved XD
14:09 Wuzzy no
14:09 Wuzzy make sane defaults first
14:10 Wuzzy we also don't set the default controls to joypad-only and say it doesn't matter because “it is settable as a setting”
14:11 CalebDavis that is a different kind of setting cause it isnt changable ingame wheras time is with /settime
14:12 CalebDavis and joypad only defeats the purpose of it being on a computer
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14:13 CalebDavis and starting time is a retavily trivial setting to argue about cause you change it once and never have to touch it again
14:13 sfan5 it's a sane default for survival purposes
14:14 sfan5 maybe the creative mod should set the sunrise to be later
14:14 CalebDavis maby but it would be even better if it were settable cause some people like to start at night
14:16 CalebDavis maybe have 2 settings creative_start_time and survival_start_time
14:20 CalebDavis and possibly have those settable to generic names like noon sunrise sunset midmorning midnight and midevening
14:21 CalebDavis midevening or midafternoon
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14:39 red-001 well it is a sane default
14:39 red-001 normally timespeed isn't 0
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15:06 paramat Wuzzy see #6220
15:06 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6220 -- New world start time: Make this 5751, time of earliest full brightness by paramat
15:07 Wuzzy haha 4 thumbs down
15:07 Wuzzy i mean 5
15:07 paramat the current behaviour is not a sane default for survival because the low light can cause mobs to spawn
15:08 Wuzzy paramat: is this PR merged?
15:08 paramat no, devs disapproved :(
15:08 paramat this does what you request
15:09 Wuzzy hmm okay i can understand the counter-arguments actually
15:09 paramat every time i start a new world for dev work, it's semi-dark, which is a little irritating
15:09 Wuzzy my feelings exactly
15:09 Wuzzy but we also have to realize that WE are the minority
15:10 paramat well, the mobs argument is important for players
15:10 Wuzzy in that case, the same default was actually the dark-ish world
15:10 paramat ?
15:11 Wuzzy in other words, i take back my suggestion to revert the new starting time
15:12 paramat why?
15:13 Wuzzy because the effect is good for players
15:13 Wuzzy players are in the majority. developers aren't. case closed
15:14 paramat erm, i just said, it's a problem because of mobs, so it's not good for players
15:14 paramat and we don't know that players prefer this, i'm sure many don't
15:15 Wuzzy hmm, i dont know if there will be a problem with mob
15:16 Wuzzy by the way, if this is made a setting it should probably be decided by subgame
15:16 Wuzzy because subgame knows best if it has mobs and such
15:17 paramat see my screenshot, that's still a nice morning effect, a bright start is more energising for a new world, semi-dark feels too 'half-asleep'
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15:17 Wuzzy argh, fuck it. I just take this issue to the forums. let the players speak! :D
15:18 paramat if mobs or other challenges are triggered by the onset of darkness, it will be a problem
15:20 paramat i know dawn is pretty, but it's impractical and not the right fresh feeling for a new world. anyway, we need a setting
15:29 Wuzzy paramat: are there any uses planned for the new string item in MTG?
15:29 Wuzzy currently this item seems useless
15:30 paramat no one has ideas yet but we will if there's a good idea
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15:32 Wuzzy why was the item added, then? mods?
15:32 paramat we've had string for a long time and mods use MTG string
15:32 paramat so string wasn't added, string was just called 'cotton'
15:33 paramat and there was an alias for the old 'string'
15:33 Wuzzy right. this rename was just strange
15:33 paramat yeah sorted now
15:33 Wuzzy yeah, i rememver the item which is called "Cotton" now used to be called "String". confusing
15:33 Wuzzy i almost forgot
15:34 Wuzzy hmmm doesnt this mean that mods which now depend on farming:cotton as a "string" are now a bit screweD?
15:35 Wuzzy argh, why am i complaining. the change actually makes sense. xD
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15:53 paramat yes a minor 'breakage' but that was unavoidable
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15:53 paramat ~nerzhul yes we plan to add optional mobs to MTG, just waiting for a framework
15:54 paramat oops
15:54 paramat ~tell nerzhul yes we plan to add optional mobs to MTG, just waiting for a framework
15:54 ShadowBot paramat: O.K.
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16:00 paramat ~tell nerzhul but see https://github.com/minetest/minetest_g​ame/issues/1667#issuecomment-290555777 sofar has done a lot of work on this, perhaps collaborate?
16:00 ShadowBot paramat: O.K.
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16:58 Fixer optional but enabled by default :trollface:
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17:04 johnnyjoy Is there any docs on decoding a block record in the database, or should I just drive into the source?
17:05 paramat map format is documented somewhere
17:05 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/world_format.txt
17:05 johnnyjoy Thanks. I'll keep looking.
17:05 johnnyjoy Thanks again.
17:07 paramat close #5442 ? sfan5
17:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5442 -- Implement FFI to LuaJIT
17:08 sfan5 fine by me
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18:03 paramat ok
18:03 paramat done
18:04 paramat i closed a few issues last night too
18:04 rubenwardy Wuzzy: string was in the original farming mod by PilzAdam, and must have just been kept
18:05 Wuzzy any idea for an actual use of this item? in MTG itself?
18:07 rubenwardy boats, vessels (not sure how well weaved containers fit in), wooden bucket (too expensively likely)
18:07 rubenwardy vessels is also kinda unused
18:11 paramat i'd still like to remove vessels to become a separate mod
18:35 paramat will merge #6340 #6347 in a moment
18:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6340 -- Zoom: Move enabling zoom to a new player object property by paramat
18:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6347 -- Remove nodeupdate and nodeupdate_single by Rui-Minetest
18:44 paramat done
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18:46 paramat next i'd like to add 'eye height' as a player object property instead of being hardcoded, for reasons explained in #6216
18:46 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6216 -- Add player eye height as player object property
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20:55 basicer Im working on adding a general purpose plugin message packet for clientmods to talk to servermods instead of hijacking chat messages.  Has anyone been thinking about this?
20:55 rubenwardy basicer, yes, it's planned
20:56 basicer Oh cool, are there any docs on the plan?
20:56 rubenwardy just nerzhul's brain
20:57 rubenwardy the API should probably work like       minetest.send("mymod:channel_name", { some = "table to be serialized, no userdata allowed" })
20:58 rubenwardy ie: server mods should need to register end points
20:58 rubenwardy and then be able to limit them (max message size, rate limiting)
20:59 sfan5 ooh that's a good idea
20:59 basicer Thats basicly what I have working right now.
20:59 sfan5 i would not have thought of this
21:00 sfan5 but including this in the design from the beginning prevents lots of DoS bugs later if clients act maliciously
21:00 rubenwardy exactly :)
21:00 basicer Should you be able to listen on other mods namespaces?
21:01 rubenwardy yeah, no real harm in that as far as I can see. It's like   node.on_punch versus register_on_punch_node
21:01 rubenwardy but I haven't thought much about it
21:02 twoelk tsts, no privacy in mod's namespace
21:04 basicer I mean a malicous client could send a lot of any packet, though not just plugin messages.
21:06 red-NaN just plugin stuff is exposed to lua mods
21:06 red-NaN but we already have that issue with formspecs so...
21:07 nerzhul hi red-NaN  :)
21:07 nerzhul it should work like rabbitmq
21:07 nerzhul i'm thinking on it
21:11 nerzhul local channel = core.register_channel("name") ; channel.broadcast(message);
21:12 nerzhul client should do same thing: client.register_channel("name")
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21:12 nerzhul then core just do message routing between consumers
21:13 nerzhul max message size & rate limits are similar to chat
21:14 nerzhul let me 15 min to code the basics and propose a first PR
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21:19 basicer I mean, I already coded the basics if you want to start with what I have.
21:20 nerzhul show me a link
21:20 basicer Leme push it somewhere.
21:20 nerzhul i'm coding the network part now :p
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21:23 basicer https://github.com/buildwithpiper/minetest/co​mmit/7087b0abf3f5395ad7ae8c24fb0ead81e53b3a6c
21:24 nerzhul okay it's more complicated than this but it's interesting
21:24 basicer Gota start somewhere :D
21:24 nerzhul we needs more than just sending messages, we need signals
21:24 basicer I was going to handle channels in lua.
21:24 nerzhul no
21:25 basicer I mean I guess go pro or go home.
21:25 nerzhul ?
21:25 basicer the RabbitMQ thing sounds pretty sweet.
21:26 nerzhul rabbitmq is a very powerful event driven queue system for messages
21:26 red-NaN how is freeminer code porting anyway?
21:27 nerzhul i have that in production in my microservice infrastructure, it's used by our java devs for some event driven communication between them
21:27 nerzhul it is... somewhere: p
21:27 nerzhul we didn't port anything
21:27 red-NaN I took at look at the lan discovery code and it looks pretty ugly
21:28 red-NaN not sure about the other code
21:28 nerzhul red-NaN, can you finish the CSM hud part ?
21:28 nerzhul i want to see it in core asap :)
21:29 red-NaN sure
21:30 nerzhul ty
21:30 rubenwardy LAN discovery is on my to do list
21:30 nerzhul it's not simple
21:30 rubenwardy but I have no idea where the code would go
21:30 nerzhul do you use broadcast or multicast UDP packet for that ?
21:30 nerzhul UPNP ?
21:31 rubenwardy broadcast
21:31 red-NaN maybe just have the server broadcast a UDP packet with it's port every few seconds
21:31 rubenwardy I'll probably implement it in my game first
21:31 rubenwardy red-NaN, I'd have the server listen and respond to broadcasted requests
21:32 rubenwardy I forget the name, but there's a common network service that works like this
21:32 red-NaN that's probably more efficient
21:33 basicer bonjour?
21:33 rubenwardy because Minetest can run on any port, you'd need to have another socket open for it
21:33 rubenwardy so it may be worth investigating a library/protocol like bonjou
21:33 nerzhul bonjour, upnp are working on this
21:34 nerzhul using standard protocol is better than reinventing the wheel
21:34 rubenwardy agreed
21:34 rubenwardy it's not very high on my to do list anyway
21:34 rubenwardy so don't let that stop you (anyone) writing it :D
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22:22 nerzhul i started #6351
22:22 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6351 -- [WIP] Mod channels part 1: Network protocol & ModChannelMgr by nerzhul
22:23 nerzhul it's not complete (no lua bindings on SSM and CSM yet), but it's the core part to route messages from and to clients
22:26 rubenwardy a lambda??? In Minetest???
22:26 rubenwardy mad times
22:26 nerzhul lol
22:26 red-NaN indeed we live in intersting times
22:26 nerzhul sorry but here it's justified :p
22:27 nerzhul it's the basis, but if i get time maybe i finished it on sunday :p
22:27 rubenwardy good job
22:27 rubenwardy and yeah, wasn't complaining about the lambda
22:27 nerzhul i think the signals from servers are good, we have server <-> client messages packets
22:27 nerzhul and client send join/leave
22:28 rubenwardy what are signals?
22:28 nerzhul i will need a force leave signal later
22:28 nerzhul it's response to events, if join/leave succeed or failed , permitting client to sync the state
22:28 nerzhul and FORCE_LEAVE will be added too when we will add moderation i think
22:29 nerzhul in my design, CSM does: core.join_channel("miscchan"); it's async
22:29 nerzhul server answer OK, FAIL
22:30 nerzhul on OK, client will register it joined the channel, on failure an error message will e shown, and we have for both case an event sent to client (on_channel_joined)
22:30 nerzhul etc :)
22:31 nerzhul when the PR will be ready for review i think i will add a scheme
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22:32 nerzhul see you later
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22:42 NullRed so what happened to protocol version 35?
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23:08 NullRed rebased #6067
23:08 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6067 -- [CSM] Add basic HUD manipulation. by red-001
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