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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-07-02

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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08:51 TenPlus1 joined #minetest-hub
08:51 TenPlus1 hi folks
09:34 tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub
09:42 Krock hi tenplus1
09:42 tenplus1 hi Krock
09:42 tenplus1 'tis quiet today :P
09:45 paramat our dev meeting was quiet too, 1 person
09:46 tenplus1 hi paramat, did that 1 person come to any conclusions :PP
09:46 paramat yes, "This has been waiting to be merged for a while .." :]
09:47 DS-minetest well, the person wasn't alone, there's ShadowBot
09:47 tenplus1 which #pull ?
09:47 paramat most of them
09:48 tenplus1 hi DS
09:49 tenplus1 wb lumidify
09:49 lumidify Hi tenplus1
09:49 DS-minetest hi tenplus1
09:49 tenplus1 seems Wuzzy has been on an issue spree lately
10:13 DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub
10:19 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
10:19 tenplus1 hi Fixer
10:22 tenplus1 Q. generic mob eggs... should these spawn animals that are tamed by default or should I leave that for eggs picked up by lasso
10:22 tenplus1 *mobs picked up by lasso already tamed
10:28 lisac joined #minetest-hub
10:28 tenplus1 hi lisac
10:35 tenplus1 bbl
10:36 tenplus1 left #minetest-hub
10:51 Krock !tell tenplus1 A. only for eggs picket up by lasso
10:51 ShadowBot Krock: O.K.
10:53 Fixer *,...,*
11:04 paramat i agree
11:24 lisac !tell tenplus1 Hi
11:24 ShadowBot lisac: O.K.
11:31 Shara Hi all
11:34 Raven262 Hello Shara
11:34 Raven262 Seems that i didn't log in when i ran hexchat
11:34 Shara Hi Raven262, how's it going?
11:34 Raven262 Good, i guess, you?
11:34 Shara Okay I think.
11:34 Shara Weekend goes too quickly
11:35 Raven262 Ah, i have my summer break :)
11:35 Shara Lucky :P
11:35 Shara I'm off study at the moment, but still work full time
11:36 Raven262 I guess that will be my future in about a year and a half :P
11:37 Shara I'm glad I'm studying again, but on top of working it can get rough
11:38 Raven262 How do you even get time to sleep then?
11:38 Shara Sometimes I don't?
11:38 Raven262 Damn
11:39 Shara Thankfully I don't need much
11:40 Raven262 Well i guess 4 hours a night is enough in a five day period.
11:40 Raven262 At least that was my observation
11:41 Raven262 But after fifth day i was sleeping a half of the sixth day
11:42 Shara It varies by person
11:42 Shara An average person does need more though, and there is a danger you work up a sleep debt without actually noticing it
11:44 Shara Which reminds me.. I should be picking my next classes :P
11:45 Shara It's kind of sad to me that the classes that are meant to be about "programming" have been the most boring and useless ones for me so far
11:45 DI3HARD139 joined #minetest-hub
11:46 Raven262 Well i guess that if you have learned many of the things yourself, there is little more to be explored.
11:46 Shara It's not like I'm a great programmer though.
11:46 Shara But I can honestly say I learned more about writing code from MT so far
11:47 Raven262 Thats what i was talking about
11:47 Raven262 I myself have no experience in the area f programming but i think this applies to all of the trades.
11:47 Raven262 *of
11:49 Shara Probably.
11:50 Shara I have to choose three out of six possible classes.... hmmm
11:54 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
12:05 paramat joined #minetest-hub
12:17 Fixer "Internet users who used Photobucket for that, that is store their images so that they can embed them on other sites, were asked to pay $399 per year, or $39.99 per month, to reactivate the functionality."
12:17 Fixer lol
12:17 Fixer another shithost bite the dust
12:25 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
12:39 Fixer COMPILE TIME
12:41 Fixer "Ruiz apparently convinced Perez that the book would stop the bullet from a foot away. The gun, a Desert Eagle .50 caliber pistol, was not hindered by the book."
12:41 Fixer amount of stupidity is reaching above 9000 level
12:43 Krock so he dieded?
12:45 Fixer yes
12:46 paramat .5!
12:46 Fixer the worst part? It is not Darwin Award :/
12:47 paramat so shot by girlfriend to 'increase their followers on social media' :]
12:47 Krock shot? http://bash.org/?574642
12:50 Fixer darwinism screeching intensifies
12:51 Fixer seen some MTG changes, it rised from the grave again?
12:51 Fixer nice
12:52 Fixer lets test if arm inertia was fixed
12:56 paramat yes i was concentrating on engine but still have lots to do in MTG
12:57 paramat my TODO list in either is overwhelming
12:58 tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub
12:58 tenplus1 Hi folks
12:58 Shara Hi paramat, hi tenplus1 :)
12:58 tenplus1 hi Shara
12:59 Shara tenplus1: generic mob eggs should NOT be tamed by default
12:59 tenplus1 kewl, thanks :D
13:00 Shara I like to hold mini-events with players where I use them to spawn all kinds of things they can fight
13:00 Shara And they are the easiest way to quickly spawn something for damage testing
13:00 tenplus1 will change that just now :D
13:00 Shara That's not how it already is??
13:01 tenplus1 no, default eggs typically spawn animals that were tamed to owner...
13:01 Shara Hmmm
13:01 tenplus1 I never really changed that... but will now :D
13:01 Shara Maybe I am mostly using things that are not tamable then
13:01 Shara But still, I think it's better if they are wild and free by default
13:02 Shara Or maybe... how about.. make that a setting?
13:02 Shara I was thinking about certain mobs I use that can be tamed, but I think they might have two eggs anyway
13:03 Shara Anyway, I'd leave it as it is
13:03 Shara I was thinking about it the wrong way round
13:04 tenplus1 all mobs have 2 eggs registered for them, 1 stackable which is now a RAW egg with no tamed settings, and the other one which saves mob settings inside eggs for animals that are picked up by owner
13:05 Shara I just want to make sure that things that usually attack still attack
13:05 tenplus1 all monsters will attack... all tamed npc will attack anyone who isnt owner
13:06 tenplus1 and of course animals like cow/pig that are tamed will attack anyone NOT owner as well
13:06 Shara But the current system works good for me. I thought you meant changing how the hostile ones behave
13:07 Shara Any change to eggs at this point is going to mess me up
13:07 Shara (unless you want to get rid of the non-stackable thing, which I still dislike... I honestly preferred it not saving)
13:10 tenplus1 wuzzy is on the rampage today, he's adding all sorts of issue's to mobs api: https://github.com/tenplus1/mobs_redo/issues
13:11 Fixer yeah
13:12 Shara catdog >.>
13:13 tenplus1 lol
13:13 Fixer 0.4.16-51104d9c-51104d9c-dirty
13:14 Fixer now with CLOUD PR included
13:16 Fixer fog is just wonderful here
13:21 Fixer in clouds https://i.imgur.com/7AoNRUp.png
13:25 Fixer TIP: to convert big areas of snow to dirt: just flood it
13:25 Fixer removes both snow above and below
13:36 octacian joined #minetest-hub
13:36 tenplus1 hi octacian
13:36 octacian Hey tenplus1 :D
13:38 DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub
13:39 tenplus1 wb DS
13:40 DS-minetest thanks tenplus1
13:41 Raven262 Guys, i'm having a weird issue on a server: http://i.imgur.com/97SLYA5.png
13:41 Raven262 Few trees grow like this from a sapling
13:42 tenplus1 hi raven... you using v6 worlds ?
13:42 Raven262 Yes.
13:42 Raven262 Hello tenplus1
13:42 * Raven262 forgot to say hi.
13:42 tenplus1 L-system tree's are placing them using vmanip I think and causes issues like that...  also, Hi
13:42 Raven262 So it is a known bug
13:46 tenplus1 that's why I dont use v6 maps
13:47 tenplus1 *hints* https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4425
13:59 paramat maybe there were non-zero param2 values in those nodes before the sapling grew, then the trunk nodes took on those param2 values?
14:00 paramat the LVM which grows the tree doesn't reset param2 values
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14:08 paramat maybe worledit was used to set those nodes to air, because it uses LVM it may not have reset the air node param2 values to 0
14:08 tenplus1 hi calcul0n
14:08 calcul0n hi ten
14:17 cx384 joined #minetest-hub
14:19 CWz the update which made the server decide the drawing is like a night mare for tablet users, they think that if they pause they won't drown since the client freezes when they do stuff like  activate an input field
14:19 CWz this funny
14:19 tenplus1 hi CWz, hi cx384
14:20 cx384 hi tenplus1 and CWz
14:20 CWz Hi tenplus1 and cx384
14:20 tenplus1 lol, freeze frame from damage... we have a few of those as well
14:34 tenplus1 has the fall damage issue been fixed when enabling the old sneak behaviour ???
14:38 paramat old sneak code option gives you exact old behaviour, bugs included
14:39 tenplus1 dammit...was hoping the fall damage issue would be fixed
14:49 tenplus1 is it possible to add a check for entity out of range errors to show the line/variable name
15:19 paramat the new sneak code was written primarily to fix the damage avoidance bug, as you can see in the threads it was found to be impossible to fix the bug while keeping the old sneak behaviour
15:20 Krock which could've been worked around by manually pushing a collision/damage into the collisions vector
15:20 Krock like it's done right now in the new sneak code
15:20 tenplus1 but I do think it's important to have an entity error check possible in code
15:21 tenplus1 showing where and how...
15:25 Sokomine just let the player live :)
15:27 tenplus1 heh
15:27 tenplus1 hi Sokomine
15:30 Sokomine hi ten, krock, paramat, rest
15:39 Shara Krock: are you saying old sneak behaviour could be done while avoiding fall damage?
15:39 Sokomine hah :-) no house with "0 front doors found" left :-)
15:39 Krock hi Shara, Sokomine
15:40 Krock Shara, yes sure. They said it ain't possible but there's a workaround
15:40 Sokomine oh, that sounds good
15:40 Shara So all of this...
15:40 Sokomine but still...just letting the player live would be the nicer option :-))
15:40 Shara And yet we have been told old sneak code option is temporary only...
15:40 tenplus1 not on my server :)
15:40 tenplus1 they get no free passes
15:41 Shara I still see myself possibly leaving MT over this issue long term.
15:41 Shara So if there is an actual solution that fixes the whole thing, why is this not happening instead of the new move code???
15:41 tenplus1 moving fall damage check away from sneak glitch would prolly work
15:44 Krock Shara, I actually planned to merge both versions to get an acceptable solution. Not falling down when releasing shift is a nice feature
15:45 Shara Krock: I hate that feature.
15:45 Shara Is there any way that can be optional?
15:45 paramat Shara best check with sfan5 too about this apparent possibility, it may not be quite as straightforward
15:45 Krock you want more settings?
15:45 Shara I've tried to adjust to it, and it just doesn't give me the the same felxibility to control movement.
15:45 tenplus1 it's like holding shift it parkour like and keeping you attached the ledge you're on...
15:45 Shara Krock: if more settings is what is needed to feel like I can play the game, yes.
15:45 Krock ack
15:46 Shara And since that is purely a control preference, that would preferablly be client side
15:46 Shara I constantly find myself unable to just drop when I want to
15:47 Shara I get that it might be better for mobile clients possibly, but I can't express how much I dislike it, along with the issue of boosted jump next to a ledge still being limited to two nodes max (at least it was when I last checked)
15:49 paramat Krock could you consider coding new sneak to be more like old sneak, while also fixing the most serious bugs of old sneak, and keeping sneak ladder/sneak jump enabled by the physics override?
15:50 Shara Alternatively I would be fine with the option simply being kept.
15:50 tenplus1 basically old sneak method with fall damage added :P
15:50 Shara tenplus1: that's exactly what I would like
15:50 Krock err what? I thought that was what I did in my PR
15:50 Shara Krock: Sorry if I have missed things, but the whole issue annoyed me so much that I stopped checking the PRs about it
15:50 paramat you PR is not like old sneak, it's only a little closer
15:51 paramat *your
15:51 Shara I would be happiest with old sneak exactly as it was, just add in a damage check for falls.
15:51 Shara sneak ladders optional or otherwise... I don't mind
15:51 paramat maybe we could keep the 'old move code' option
15:51 Shara please do.
15:52 paramat there's no big need to remove it
15:53 Shara I know a lot of people have worked on it, and I don't want to just moan over and over, but the new move code is simply a game breaker for me, and there's been no reassurance of a long term answer I'm okay with
15:54 paramat Krock what i mean is, can you make new sneak identical to old sneak, as you claim? while avoiding the damage bug
15:54 Shara I think the damage bug was the biggest reason to change it in the first place?
15:54 paramat yeah
15:55 Krock paramat, it's basically this code block that does the magic https://github.com/minetest/minetest/bl​ob/master/src/localplayer.cpp#L282-L290
15:55 tenplus1 and we keep the sneak physics override to disable it only when needed...
15:56 paramat Krock i'm unsure about your claim, best discuss with sfan5. what players want is very specific behaviour
15:56 Shara I just worry you will never please everyone without some options at this point.
15:56 Shara Since the divide on this seemed pretty even, and very extreme in both directions
15:57 paramat i'm trying to remember if there was any need to remove the old move code at 0.5, i don't think so
15:57 tenplus1 if it helps sway anyone, the sneak glitch was the one thing that we had over minecraft that added to the game and had it's own way of moving/climbing/parkour that was unique to minetest
15:58 paramat i think i suggested doing that just to help get that PR merged :]
15:58 Krock Oh look at this discussion potential that I just found.
15:58 Shara tenplus1: Yup. I have tried, but I just really don't enjoy moving round in game without it. Strips the fun for me.
15:59 * Sokomine nods to tenplus1
15:59 Sokomine sneak ladders where always a bit odd - but people got used to it and loved them for a long time
16:00 tenplus1 we had a huge parkour tower on Xanadu mk.2 that used sneak on one of the harder levels and it was amazing...  really made the course stand out...   it's not possible now with the new code
16:00 tenplus1 if stu would add gloves to 3d_armor we could have the old style sneak glitch as a feature to climb with, would be kewl :D
16:01 Shara Yea, that's what I always wanted to see
16:02 Shara Increased mobility at the price of increase defence... something like that
16:02 Shara decreased def*
16:03 Shara Then there is a bit more to the game than simply piling on the defence, and you can start to think about how you want to play
16:03 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6090
16:04 red-001 just be glad we don't have half-life 2 style ladders
16:04 tenplus1 hi red... how'd ya mean ???
16:05 paramat so i'm ok with keeping the old move code option, the last thing i want is a much appreciated server owner leaving MT when we can keep a harmless option
16:06 tenplus1 once the fall damage is fixed for the old style behaviour then all is well with the world
16:06 tenplus1 in fact, lemmie paste that into issue :D
16:06 Shara Yup. I think that would please most people
16:07 red-001 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcrjUa4dzoM
16:08 tenplus1 ahh i get you now red, you can climb on both sides but the hole is only on one of them :DDDD
16:08 red-001 oh and the direction you are going in is decided by your look direction
16:08 paramat wow lots of reaction
16:09 * Shara wonders why Krock is confused by a desire to keep the old code
16:10 * Krock tells Shara that he would like to have more reactions to fill that bar
16:10 Shara :P
16:11 red-001 https://www.reddit.com/r/HalfLife/comments/41w​e06/halflife_2_laddersthe_greatest_challenge/
16:11 tenplus1 Krock: the pull you pasted, does that fix the fall damage for old sneak behaviour ???
16:12 paramat so this will hopefully be merged soon https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5533 it improves new sneak a little, do test once merged, but i doubt it will satisfy everyone
16:12 Krock tenplus1, no, the old sneak code is untouched
16:12 tenplus1 ah okies :P
16:13 tenplus1 was wondering what ya pasted :)
16:13 Krock that's about the code that could be pasted into the old code too to fix the damage evading
16:13 Shara Yet paramat is saying it's unlikely to work?
16:13 tenplus1 ahhh goody :)) was hoping that would be the case
16:13 paramat Krock please try it
16:14 Shara old code with damage fix would be the ideal
16:14 paramat i'm just sceptical
16:14 Shara if possible, I just really don't understand why it wasn't done to begin with :(
16:14 paramat well sfan5 couldn't work out how to
16:14 paramat so it seemed impossible at the time
16:15 tenplus1 you could be the greatest programmer ever, but sometimes a new set of eyes for a problem helps
16:15 tenplus1 my first day in #minetest-project resulted in a few mods being optimized :)
16:16 paramat anyway i would prefer to keep the old code option while people experiment and as long as players are unhappy with the new
16:17 tenplus1 +1
16:17 Shara paramat: unless there are massive changes, that's forever on my part :P
16:18 paramat yes it may have to be, and i'm fine with that
16:18 Shara It would just be really nice to have confirmation of that, so I can stop worrying
16:19 paramat that's my position and i'll argue for it, lets see what other devs think
16:19 Shara Thank you
16:19 paramat having that block of old move code in there is harmless
16:20 tenplus1 kewlio :PPP
16:20 paramat the prospect of Shara 'leaving' is terrifying :]
16:20 paramat hehe
16:21 tenplus1 rc is a very popular server
16:21 Shara well, I'm looking at alternatives, but I don't like any of them
16:21 Shara And freezing my servers on certain versions long term (even though I've been known to do it anyway) isn't something I like, especially once compatibility breaks
16:22 Shara DL was moved to stable yesterday.... actually working on getting RC ready to update right now.
16:22 tenplus1 stability is good...   for all I enjoy using latest devs that one serialize.h error keeps cropping up... and it's not the mods...
16:25 sfan5 paramat: it's certainly not impossible but like you said I couldn't work out how to do it
16:25 tenplus1 hi sfan
16:26 KaadmY Is there a way to place decorations below things?
16:26 paramat ok
16:26 KaadmY Like moss hanging in caves
16:26 tenplus1 hi KaadmY
16:26 KaadmY Yo
16:26 tenplus1 paramat: didn't you say you were working on something like that at one point ?
16:26 paramat KaadmY that's my plan
16:26 tenplus1 ehe +1
16:27 paramat underground decorations that can be above or below the 'place on' node
16:27 Shara KaadmY: caverealms already has things hanging from cave roofs :P
16:27 KaadmY Yeah
16:27 tenplus1 needs voxelmanip tho
16:27 KaadmY I could use schematics with centered Y and offset -1m in the schematic
16:27 KaadmY But messy
16:28 paramat yes best to enable simple decos to do this
16:28 tenplus1 I dare say the mapgen is having a lot of features added for next release :PPPP
16:28 tenplus1 *cough* layering
16:28 paramat i've been working very hard on mapgen
16:29 KaadmY What if you set the decoration height to -1?
16:29 Shara layering would be great to see
16:29 paramat layering depends on a new mapgen, i'm experimenting but in time for 0.5 is not likely
16:29 tenplus1 aww... shame...  been eager to see this in engine for quite some time
16:30 paramat or rather, it's possible for 0.5 but not at a quality level i would be happy with
16:30 tenplus1 as a testing feature it would be amazing paramat, kinda like v8 mapgen for us to play with
16:30 paramat and i have other ideas i am considering
16:31 tenplus1 do tell ??
16:32 paramat i'm working on a 'mgv8', a prototype version might be ready for 0.5, but maybe just a normal single realm version
16:32 tenplus1 :P
16:32 paramat don't want to talk about my other ideas yet, but if you learnt how to compile you could test my branches as i dev
16:33 tenplus1 my wee pc would die :P not that powerful
16:33 Shara Compiling doesn't take much really :P
16:34 Shara (unless you try on windows)
16:34 tenplus1 ehehe...
16:34 paramat if it can run MT it can compile it
16:34 tenplus1 a run in place deb version would be handy
16:34 octacian paramat: Wait... you mentioned the word "realm". Is something actually going to happen when it comes to implementing realms?
16:35 paramat not 'other dimensions', stacked world layers
16:35 tenplus1 +1,000,000
16:35 tenplus1 we've needed 'dis
16:36 octacian paramat: Please no...
16:36 paramat or 'other' ways to use the world space and have different 'areas'
16:37 octacian paramat: Please just look into implementing real realms... Not stacked realms. They'd just result in a a mess
16:37 Sokomine sounds very good
16:37 octacian plus, there'd be a small limit
16:37 Shara octacian: why?
16:37 paramat then a mod could always add impassable barriers between to effectively make these dimensions
16:37 octacian >_<
16:37 Shara MT maps have a ridiculous amount of wasted height.
16:37 octacian We already discussed the entire issue in GitHub
16:37 paramat what is a 'real realm'
16:37 KaadmY octacian: define "realm"
16:38 tenplus1 *shudder* the idea of minecraft dimensions isnt good... layering is much easier
16:38 Shara And there are already mods that add in various layers, and they work well, just obviously are not as efficient
16:38 octacian My personal suggestion if that we should save different realms in different map files
16:38 KaadmY Why not just have a large height difference and a custom light method that ignores higher/lower realms?
16:38 KaadmY Realms like Minecraft (seperate realms that have their own coordinate systems) would be a HUGE nightmare
16:38 octacian KaadmY: Why?
16:39 octacian Stacked realms is just a hacky shortcut. Once you run out of stacking space, no more realms.
16:39 KaadmY Since all old maps would be incompatible, networking would be incompatible, and the codebase would basically have to be rewritten
16:39 octacian I don't think either would happen.
16:39 KaadmY You could get 120+ Minecraft-height realms with Minetest's world side
16:39 tenplus1 lol octacian, we have 60,000 in height to play with so could easily have 60 realms of 1000 nodes
16:39 KaadmY size*
16:39 KaadmY No, 240+
16:40 paramat i'm not capable of coding database multiple worlds so someone else would have to, also it is not trivial and i think not much needed
16:40 octacian Sometimes it's nice to have more than 1000 nodes in height. Listen, the moment you choose stacked realms, you just take a shortcut that will eventually end in limitations
16:40 octacian Implement real realms, with separate coordinates, separate chat, etc..., those limitations don't exist.
16:40 KaadmY Do you want to rewrite half the lighting/meshgen/network/save protocol?
16:40 paramat seems not worth the effort to me, but others might code it
16:40 tenplus1 I'd like to see a server that wuld need more than 60 layers/dimensions... not even minecraft servers have that many
16:40 KaadmY ^
16:41 octacian So would I.
16:41 KaadmY Honestly, I think having dedicated realms is a very good idea
16:41 KaadmY But too late for Minetest
16:41 octacian However, if limitations are put in place, the creativity that could result would be epic.
16:41 Shara to make that many distinct dimensions... you'd need to register such a ridiculous number of nodes anyway
16:41 octacian it's never too late
16:42 octacian Why would you need to register a ridiculous number of nodes?
16:42 Shara Or they don't end up very distinct
16:42 KaadmY octacian: "too late", as in a new engine would likely be faster :P
16:42 tenplus1 lol
16:42 Shara What's the point of new realms/layers that just repeat?
16:42 octacian KaadmY: Well, from your perspective, everything new in MT is too late then :P
16:42 KaadmY So someone figured out my standpoint :D
16:42 XtremeHacker joined #minetest-hub
16:42 octacian Shara: There isn't, however, if they were implemented properly, different mods and even mapgens could be loaded for each realm
16:43 KaadmY Hi XtremeHacker
16:43 tenplus1 hi XtremeHacker
16:43 KaadmY :P
16:43 XtremeHacker Hwy KaadmY, tenplus1
16:43 XtremeHacker *Hey
16:43 Shara octacian: I don't know really. Just at that point it feels better to run more than one server
16:43 Shara Hi XtremeHacker
16:43 tenplus1 K.I.S.S.
16:43 paramat 'hacky shortcut' :] no it's just another approach, it's not meant as an imperfect attempt at dimensions
16:43 KaadmY ^
16:44 octacian Well, I for one have gtg. Maybe when XtremeHacker gets back he'll explain why proper realms would be better - we're both on the same page on that one.
16:44 * tenplus1 looks at XtremeHacker
16:44 paramat MC has to use dimensions because of the pathetic world height, if it had the height it would likely have put the nether and end in the same world but low down / high up
16:44 octacian However, I'll just say that I really don't think stacked realms are the way to go. But, if it's all we get, I'll take it
16:45 KaadmY paramat: Minecraft has a different coordinate system for each realm
16:45 octacian The best solution honestly would be to have "real" realms, and support for specifying different mapgens for different heights or something
16:46 KaadmY So for example walking 1m in the Nether moves you 8m in the overworld
16:46 tenplus1 why copy minecraft ?
16:46 KaadmY Hm good point
16:47 KaadmY Why copy Minecraft's exact inventory system, mechanics, blocks
16:47 Sokomine don't worry too much about 1000 nodes high structures. people won't be able to see them most of the time anyway. no point in having them really....
16:47 KaadmY The only problem I can think of with stacked realms is if people want to have really deep underground areas
16:48 Sokomine the realms or layers or whatever could be very nice for those solar system mods - have a diffrent world/planet at each height
16:48 Calinou <KaadmY> So for example walking 1m in the Nether moves you 8m in the overworld
16:48 Calinou technically this is only true when using portals
16:48 Shara KaadmY: not every server will have to place layers at all possible points
16:48 tenplus1 layering would still let you dig deep but provide deeper layers/biomes to dig into
16:48 Calinou the engine does not multiply all coordinates by 8 all the time while you're in the Nether
16:48 tenplus1 hi Cal
16:48 Shara Layers can be underground layers too
16:48 Calinou hi
16:48 KaadmY Calinou: yes
16:49 Calinou KaadmY: also, honestly... I wish there was a game that wasn't afraid of going full-on cloning Minecraft
16:49 KaadmY Calinou: Pixture :P
16:49 Calinou I still like the Minecraft experience the most out of all the voxel games
16:49 tenplus1 minecraft-like, but not 100% minecraft
16:49 KaadmY Not a clone, but I just shamelessly took mechanics that worked well
16:49 Calinou but, we need to move away from it one day, because Microsoft is likely to kill the cross-platform Java version one day
16:49 Calinou the game also isn't exactly cheap now (€24)
16:49 KaadmY Oh rly
16:50 Calinou it went from €20 to €24 about 2 years ago, I think
16:50 Sokomine Calinou: try mineclone2. it seems to be very close. sadly it's a pvp anarchy server that runs it
16:50 tenplus1 glad I never paid for it, mc almost killed my computer
16:50 Calinou for what it's worth, you can get GTA V for €24 in France right now (on deals)
16:50 Calinou GTA V cost much more to develop than Minecraft, and is more recent :P
16:51 Calinou Sokomine: I know about it, but sometimes I question engine limitations/decisions still
16:51 Sokomine tenplus1: same here. mc just doesn't run on my machine. i'd have to insert an extra graphics card - which would consume more energy and be louder. i don't really want that
16:51 paramat so there is a lot of talk about dimensions but the effort needed is huge and considering our current lack of dev time it's unlikely to be done, just not worth it when we have so much wasted world space already
16:51 Sokomine Calinou: ah, ok
16:52 paramat the dimension fans can talk all they want it won't make it happen :]
16:53 Sokomine :-)
16:53 Sokomine diffrent layers are fine. there could be higher layers for places where people do extensive mining or ufo-flying
16:53 tenplus1 +1 paramat .. your layering mapgen is the way forward... this I know!!!
16:53 tenplus1 have been hinting at this for well over a year now :))) am just glad it's getting worked on
16:54 paramat well this stuff has been my purpose all along
16:54 paramat i'm only here because of the world height
16:54 Sokomine very fine
16:55 tenplus1 layering + skybox  = many amazing realities
16:55 paramat i was interested in MC and the most interesting thing i saw was 'cubic chunks' that expanded the world height
16:55 Sokomine some mods may still need adjustments. mg_villages only cares about mapchunks up to a certain height. no need to slow down map generation at places where villages will never be placed. but if it where to be set on a diffrent layer that would have to be taken into account
16:55 Calinou paramat: I remember cubic chunks back in the day
16:55 Calinou it made the game much slower, but was nice
16:56 paramat i chose MT because of: easy modding, and world height
16:56 Calinou but Mojang ended up using two 128-height chunks, amounting to 256 heihgt
16:56 Calinou which is enough in many cases, but not all :P
16:56 Sokomine mc - in its classic form - is great due to its limitations. even a few blocks are enough to create amazing structures. as for building, less is sometimes more
16:56 Calinou they tried 512 too, but it was just too slow
16:56 Sokomine even thoug we all love to extend our worlds with more and more details :-)
16:57 tenplus1 having +/- 500 would be sufficient for any world/realm
16:57 paramat as for number of layers, even 8 layers would be a lot to create, so each could be 8000 tall, 4000 ground, 4000 atmosphere
16:58 Sokomine paramat: in my case it was easy modding (originally wanted villagers and cars to travel on the streets in a creative world) and running well (instead of mc survival which just didn't work out)
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16:59 paramat i only knew simple BASIC 4 years ago so liked Lua
17:00 tenplus1 you're doing well with what youve added so far dude
17:00 Shara yup :)
17:00 Calinou Minecraft is pretty easy to run on a desktop/laptop today
17:00 Sokomine certainly :-) thanks for all the work!
17:00 Calinou but you'll still want a dedicated GPU of some sort
17:00 Calinou ...which is true for all commercial games of this era
17:00 Sokomine calinou: not if you don't have an extra graphics card
17:00 Calinou yeah, but see what I said about commercial games :P
17:01 Sokomine yes, exactly. mt runs fine with the one inside the celeron :-)
17:01 Calinou even the indies will usually not run well on an IGP
17:01 Sokomine you just nijna'd me
17:01 Calinou even the latest midrange IGPs (like the one in my laptop) struggle at CS:GO in 1080p
17:01 tenplus1 ehe...  I turn every visual effect OFF and have it run on mobile ion gfx, and it performs well
17:01 Calinou (I don't consider < 1080p acceptable personally :P)
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17:01 Calinou which is a 2012 game
17:01 Calinou (all settings to low, textures on high)
17:03 KaadmY Well technically 4 years ago I only knew BASIC too :P
17:04 * tenplus1 grew up on AMOS Basic... was a wonderful language
17:04 Calinou 4 years ago, I didn't know JavaScript or Rust :p
17:04 Calinou but I'm slow at picking up programming concepts
17:04 Calinou mostly due to lack of motivation
17:05 tenplus1 minetest gave me a damn good hobby :)
17:05 tenplus1 I enjoy tinkering
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17:06 Fixer Calinou: IGP are crap mostly
17:06 Calinou tenplus1: although, many people believe this is a problem in open source
17:06 Calinou if you're not into tinkering, you really won't like most open source software
17:07 Calinou (some people even translate this to "Be a masochist")
17:07 tenplus1 open-source is a good way to go...
17:07 tenplus1 hi tumeninodes
17:07 tenplus1 I can edit hte mods and override basic mt_game functions to my hearts delight, but only give ideas as to engine stuff... am not c++ minded
17:08 tenplus1 o.O although to be fair, right now Wuzzy is doing my head in with his constant requests on mobs api changes
17:08 tenplus1 https://github.com/tenplus1/mobs_redo/issues
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17:09 tenplus1 hi nrz
17:11 tumeninodes hi tenplus1
17:12 nerzhul hi
17:12 tumeninodes hi nerzhul
17:14 tumeninodes if someone could tell me, I merged the stairsIO mod into the default stairs mod. Can I open a PR for the default stairs mod individually? Or do I need to use my MTG fork to do this?
17:15 tumeninodes or my MTG clone sorry
17:21 tumeninodes afk
17:27 rubenwardy you need to fork the MTG repo on Github, commit your changes, then make a PR
17:33 tumeninodes thank you rubenwardy.
17:34 octacian paramat: OK, I did some thinking on the dimensions issue, and i'm fine with stacked dimensions. If I understand them correctly, simply a better way to manage things like caverealms and floatlands, they would be really nice in that you could seamlessly travel from one to another without some portal or something
17:35 octacian However, I do see some possible issues
17:36 octacian In order for travelling from one to another to work in a way that made sense, you'd have to make sure that the dimensions were stacked in the right order. For example, what if you already had caverealms and overworld dimensions, but then also wanted to add a nether dimension. Well, for traveling from one to another to work nicely, you'd have to shift the first two dimensions up
17:36 tenplus1 octacian: they will be stacked so you could literally climb from one to another unless an unbreakable base node is added
17:36 octacian That's the major issue I see, is modifying existing realms
17:37 octacian tenplus1: Yes, that's what I'm saying. You could climb from one to another. However, if they were organized incorrectly it wouldn't make sense. In order to maintain proper organization, you'd need a method with which to shift dimensions from one place to another so as to allow placing another dimension above or below it
17:37 octacian Not required, but could be an issue
17:38 tenplus1 we could have a mod list for layering status... higher levels would be planets etc. lower nether etc. mid range is wahtever
17:38 octacian Another thing is, let's say you had 2 overworld realms for some reason. You get to the top of one, only to find the bottom of the next. In this case, it just wouldn't make sense. It just wouldn't feel right IMO... I mean, you get to the top only to find the bottom of something else
17:38 Fixer JUST ONE MORE YEAR AND THEN YOU WILL BE HAPPY
17:38 octacian I would expect to find nothing at the top in the case of this honestly
17:39 octacian Fixer: uhhhh..
17:39 octacian tenplus1: Yes, but that doesn't deal with the issue that one realm might be added at, let's say the top. Then what if you wanted to add another realm, but you wanted it at the top with the current top one just below it
17:40 octacian In order for that to word without creating a new world, you'd have to shift a huge amount of blocks down
17:40 tenplus1 an api can be made to register layers/realms for mod usage...
17:40 octacian I suppose this is probably an unavoidable issue, but just figured I'd mention it
17:40 tumeninodes octacian, I don't think one (or most users) would run into those issues, unless they were looking for them, during general use
17:40 octacian Yes, that's what I'd expect, but that still doesn't fix the issue I mentioned
17:40 octacian tumeninodes: IK..But it's still a possible issue, which really annoys me :P
17:41 tumeninodes but issues are part of the business ; )
17:41 octacian ..but issues that are left unfixed are bad for the business :P
17:41 Fixer current mood: https://i.imgur.com/dfmxV0n.jpg
17:41 octacian As well as issues that are created by a "solution" to a problem
17:41 * octacian isn't even gonna click that link
17:42 tenplus1 ground one completed 1st, then testing, then any issues leftover will be dealt with
17:43 Fixer octacian: it is safe
17:44 octacian Fixer: heh, that it was :rofl:
17:44 tumeninodes anything newly implemented is always going to have issues, regardless of how much pre-thought goes into it
17:46 tumeninodes I think stacked realms sounds great, as long as each stack can use different mapgen settings & flags
17:46 Darcidride joined #minetest-hub
17:46 tenplus1 hi Darcidride
17:48 tenplus1 Shara, how about holding sneak when placing stackable egg to give non-tamed variaty ???
17:49 Sokomine or add a tool to re-accustom them to life in the wilderness :-)
17:50 tenplus1 lol, the blinky thing from MIB :P
17:50 Shara tenplus1: if someone really wants that option, maybe
17:50 tenplus1 it's a nice option so that you can place the eggs and they are tamed, but hold sneak (like with most blocks) and it erases it's tamed status
17:50 Sokomine ah. reintroduce animal/mob to the wild
17:50 Sokomine exactly :-)
17:52 paramat i agree that stacked layers has many issues if used to try to implement dimensions, but the point is, it won't be used as an imperfect implementation of dimensions, it will just do something different
17:54 paramat dimensions are low priority so with our dev time shortage it is unlikely, unless a dev gets particularly interested, even then it is likely not worth the effort
17:54 tenplus1 I want layering more than dimensions, it will bring more to the game and is possible considering dev time restraints
17:54 Shara I'd also favour layering
17:56 paramat i would actually encourage such a dev to direct that huge amount of effort to something of higher priority, like VAEs
17:57 paramat or whatever
17:58 tenplus1 VAE ???? whassat ???
17:58 tumeninodes a massive dev-raid is needed. I have duct tape and a van. who's in?
17:59 rubenwardy !wiki VAE
17:59 tenplus1 lol tumeninodes
17:59 rubenwardy tenplus1, http://dev.minetest.net/TODO#Voxel_Area_Entities
18:00 tenplus1 hi ruben, thanks
18:00 tenplus1 ahh, good idea, although you just know you'll have a player wanting to drive a mountain around
18:01 tenplus1 Mobs Redo API updated (again) - fixed gravity issue, fall speed and new un-tamed egg support added
18:08 Sokomine tumeninodes: :-)
18:12 tumeninodes hi Sokomine
18:18 tenplus1 http://www.ebuyer.com/761103-asus​-rog-g20cb-gaming-pc-g20cb-uk007t
18:19 tumeninodes blah, screwed up with my first PR
18:25 tenplus1 what's it for tumeninodes /
18:26 tumeninodes I merged the stairsIO mod into default stairs
18:27 tenplus1 ah kewl... if that gets added no more Stairs Redo :DDD
18:28 tumeninodes but, use copy/paste :P have to fix some errors (lots actually). one error I will need help with though because I have no idea how to change a function title while keeping the original function in place
18:29 tumeninodes ? is that what your stairs redo does?
18:29 tumeninodes I'm sorry
18:29 tenplus1 github.com/tenplus1/stairs <-- adds corner stairs and slopes :PPP
18:29 tenplus1 it works differently tho but backwards compatible :D
18:30 tumeninodes heh, my work will anger some modders
18:30 tenplus1 hehe, not angry, it's actually a good thing if corners get into default :D
18:31 tumeninodes well, I had to make function changes in castles and quartz in my copies after I made the merge on my end
18:32 tumeninodes I will have to look at your code for backward compat.
18:32 tenplus1 :P
18:33 tumeninodes I have to look, I was going to try stair redo but had not had time yet
18:34 tumeninodes did you do a PR for that? heh I am so not up with things :D
18:34 tenplus1 nah, it lives on my git page incase anyone wants to use it :DDDD  no pull made at all
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18:35 tenplus1 hi kaeza
18:35 kaeza hi tenplus1
18:36 tumeninodes hi kaeza
18:36 kaeza heyo tumeninodes
18:36 tumeninodes tenplus1, soooo, you could make my life easier, and PR stairs Redo :D
18:37 tenplus1 does stairsio use .obj files ?
18:37 tumeninodes besides, mine has no slopes
18:37 tumeninodes no but, there are some floating around.
18:37 tumeninodes marcus was looking for them and I think greendimond made a set
18:37 tenplus1 redo uses nodeboxes for slab, corner, invcorner and .obj's for stair and slope
18:38 tumeninodes I did too but mine were harsh and I did not redo them
18:39 tumeninodes is invcorner to match with slopes?
18:40 tenplus1 corner and invcorner work with slab and stairs, slopes are extra decoration stairs :D
18:41 tumeninodes ok so they are the same, inner and outer corner. The "v" just threw me off :P
18:42 tumeninodes so, how do I talk you into replacing my error riddled PR with yours :P
18:43 tumeninodes I have to step a way for approx 20 min brb
18:45 tenplus1 https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php​?f=10&amp;t=8494&amp;start=2650#p254946
19:04 Sokomine wish trees would use my trees_lib or any other lib...
19:21 tumeninodes tenplus1: so what do you think? Are you interested in doing a PR for stairs redo for default stairs or, should I just continue with mine? I feel bad as you have already done all that work for stairs redo
19:22 tenplus1 keep going with yours dude :P
19:23 tenplus1 redo is a tialored stairs mod, has too many changes
19:23 tenplus1 we run it on Xanadu, that was it's only purpose
19:23 tumeninodes my initial mistake was, I made a branch to add my changes, then did a PR to my MTG repo fork but I thought it would only go to my own repo, but it went to the main repo :P
19:23 tumeninodes ah, ok then. Just be aware I will be stealing your backwards compat code :P
19:24 tenplus1 help yourself :P
19:24 tumeninodes with your full creds of course. I have to add cred to themtsurvivor as well
19:24 tumeninodes thank you
19:25 tumeninodes ugh... now I gotta "do" stuff..., lame
19:25 tenplus1 :P
19:25 tumeninodes also looked at the link you posted earlier... as horse race... so cool
19:26 tenplus1 yeah :) now that mob_horse has horseshoes players can craft and apply a set to speed up horse, make them jump higher etc
19:26 tumeninodes awesome. nice to see all the mobs work lately
19:27 tenplus1 api runs better as well lately, few good changes
19:28 tumeninodes is anyone continuing with marcus' path finder work, or is he still working on it behind the curtain?
19:29 tumeninodes burli (sorry)
19:30 tenplus1 am sure he's tinkering away with it and improving the code :)  we also have a pull in mt-engine to improve line_of_sight function also
19:32 tumeninodes oh, excellent. is the distance for line of sight adjustable?
19:33 tenplus1 the change lets it work through airlike nodes and anything buildable to like plants/snow... so more accurate
19:34 tumeninodes that would be good.
19:35 tenplus1 would definitely speed up mob api cause if it finds those kinda nodes it has to check each one induvidually slowing things down
19:35 tumeninodes well, I need to stop procrastinating and go fix my PR. Maybe I'll be nominated for the most error-filled PR award :P
19:36 tenplus1 ehehehe, have fun :PP
19:36 tumeninodes thanks, I won't. :D
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19:37 Sokomine tumeninodes: i'm currently intensly working with it - in a static environment. i do read all buildings schematics in mg_villages, then run burlis pathfinder on each house to find a path from each bed to the outside world, thus identifying all the front/back/leading outside doors
19:37 Sokomine hmpf. he left while i typed
19:38 tenplus1 lol
19:38 Sokomine wasn't there a bot with /msg functionality around?
19:39 Sokomine burlis pathfinder works nicely inside the houses. i had to do some small adjustments for some types of nodebox-like nodes and doors. mob_world_interaction holds my most recent version
19:39 tenplus1 kewl, gotta try it out sometuime
19:43 tenplus1 ooh, Xanadu has clocked 80hrs uptime and still sitting at 0.1 lag :P nice
19:46 Sokomine nice :-)
19:47 tenplus1 once tonight's update is finished I'll open border for new players
19:49 * Sokomine stares at the acacia sapling and shouts "grow!" at it
19:49 tenplus1 lol, use bonemeal
19:49 garywhite I think I found a bug in 0.4.16: If you press an arrow key accidentally while in the pause menu, the game freezes up & crashes
19:50 tenplus1 daaamn, so it goes.... also hi gary
19:50 tenplus1 pose an issue for that one
19:50 garywhite hi ten, did I disturb you?
19:50 garywhite (I thought I may have when you said "daaamn"
19:51 tenplus1 I tried what you said... segmentation fault....
19:51 * garywhite goes back to testing to see what keys trigger it
19:51 tenplus1 I pressed up
19:52 Shara Ekk, that is kinda bad
19:52 Shara Confirmed down arrow does it too
19:52 tenplus1 the disable_jump group doesnt work on liquids... can still float upwards
19:52 Shara garywhite: please make sure to post an issue
19:53 garywhite It looks like only up/down arrows do it, nothing else
19:54 tenplus1 strange bug
19:54 garywhite But does that fall under MT or MTG? (I'd assume MT)
19:54 tenplus1 mt engine
20:00 garywhite I'm testing on 0.4.15 too to see if it happens on that too
20:01 garywhite Only on 0.4.16
20:01 garywhite OK, posted #6092
20:02 tenplus1 sweet, thx gary :)
20:03 Shara Added a comment :)
20:03 Shara Nice find, gary
20:07 Sokomine tenplus1: bonemeal doesn't help at mapgen time, in voxelmanip *pouring bonemeal over the entire map* :-)
20:07 red-001 #1 <-- I wonder does this work here yet
20:07 tenplus1 :P
20:12 tenplus1 nite all :)
20:12 tenplus1 left #minetest-hub
20:27 nerzhul garywhite, fixed
20:54 garywhite Fastest issue to fix ever
20:55 nerzhul simple crash to fix
21:44 kaeza nerzhul, garywhite, https://xkcd.com/371/
21:44 garywhite heh
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22:43 Fixer whats stairsio?
22:44 Fixer nevermind
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23:56 KaadmY Is there currently any way to have hanging decorations?
23:57 KaadmY Ie. moss hanging from stone in caves
23:57 KaadmY Or vines hanging from swamp leaves
23:57 KaadmY Just for examples
23:57 KaadmY Right now Minetest's decorations are limited to on top of nodes

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