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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-07-09

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Time Nick Message
00:04 tumeninodes joined #minetest-hub
00:06 bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub
00:06 tumeninodes how bigfoot
00:08 Lupercus joined #minetest-hub
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00:13 Megaf Quassel is really unstable when you have many channels on it
00:14 tumeninodes hi Megaf, nice to meet you
00:15 KaadmY Megaf: never had any issues, using Quassel right now
00:15 KaadmY Have ~30 channels open
00:16 tumeninodes hi Kaadmy, how is the shaders work coming
00:16 Megaf KaadmY: 38 here right now after a huge clean up
00:16 KaadmY tumeninodes: nicely
00:16 Megaf tumeninodes: hi there, how are you doing:
00:16 KaadmY Specular and directional lighting
00:16 KaadmY Finally got specular working right
00:17 tumeninodes I mentioned specular once before but in the wrong light :P
00:17 tumeninodes Megaf: I am doing well thanks
00:17 KaadmY https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen​ts/312390672105734144/33339833953196​4416/screenshot_20170708_170240.png
00:18 KaadmY https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen​ts/312390672105734144/33339835187173​7857/screenshot_20170708_170250.png
00:18 KaadmY https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen​ts/312390672105734144/33339835700124​0576/screenshot_20170708_170417.png
00:18 KaadmY https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen​ts/312390672105734144/33339835578895​5648/screenshot_20170708_170447.png
00:18 Megaf KaadmY: And Im using Quassel Core and Quassel Client
00:18 Megaf the core seems to be crashing when client connects
00:18 KaadmY Using a Quassel core here too
00:19 KaadmY It's technically a friend's but still a core
00:19 tumeninodes Kaadmy: 1st and 3rd images show it off the best... very nice
00:19 KaadmY Thanks :)
00:20 KaadmY Can't see the specular too well on those pics
00:20 tumeninodes have you cloned and looked over any of RBA's work he was doing?
00:20 KaadmY Not yet
00:20 KaadmY Specular https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen​ts/312390672105734144/33339832998153​4209/screenshot_20170708_170233.png
00:20 tumeninodes some really interesting stuff
00:20 KaadmY Yeah he had a ton of work in progress stuff
00:21 KaadmY Haven't tried any of his branches though
00:22 tumeninodes The only thing I have thought about, regarding the use of all these with MTG is, using them minimally
00:22 KaadmY Yeah
00:23 KaadmY Effects can work really well if used in moderation
00:23 KaadmY If you go ballistic with them it always ends badly
00:23 tumeninodes I mean, as far as water reflection and refaction go
00:23 KaadmY yeah
00:24 tumeninodes like tone mapping (current) could certainly use a good going over and some "toning" down
00:25 KaadmY I think Minetest also badly needs HDR
00:25 KaadmY HDR + real light scale would benefit Minetest and mods a TON
00:25 tumeninodes it's really nice to see someone working on them
00:26 KaadmY Well TBH I dislike Minetest in its current state due to lack of actual features and more and more less useful and unstable features getting into stable version
00:26 tumeninodes well, hdr could be used for normalmaps and still keep curreent 16px
00:26 KaadmY Plus Minetest is currently pretty bad as an engine and more of a Minec***t-like modding platform
00:26 KaadmY Um
00:27 KaadmY HDR has nothing to do with normalmaps
00:27 KaadmY It'd require a huge rework of the lighting system though
00:27 KaadmY Which is due for a big rework sometime anyway
00:28 tumeninodes oh duh, your talking high dynamic range?
00:28 KaadmY yeah
00:28 KaadmY You said that too :P > well, hdr could be used for normalmaps and still keep curreent 16px
00:29 tumeninodes I thought you meant hi res textures
00:29 KaadmY Ah
00:29 tumeninodes :P
00:29 tumeninodes I'm far from pro quite obvious
00:29 KaadmY :D
00:30 tumeninodes I tinkered a bit with the water shaders some time back
00:30 KaadmY There aren't any water shaders really
00:31 KaadmY Wait Minetest doesn't have noise functions in the shader
00:31 KaadmY Dangit
00:31 tumeninodes but going back n forth through various forums, and looking through irrlicht forum
00:31 KaadmY Seeded pseudorandom noise it is!
00:31 tumeninodes water waving
00:32 tumeninodes which I don;t care for tbh
00:32 KaadmY yeah
00:32 KaadmY It breaks flowing water too much
00:32 tumeninodes it looks goofy, expecially yes when it can't be isolate to water source
00:32 tumeninodes omg?! E"x"pecially?
00:33 KaadmY Also I can customize water effects shader-side for source/flowing
00:34 KaadmY Since the shader has knowlege of that
00:34 tumeninodes You will be a God among MineTesters
00:34 KaadmY Now water is 8x shinier
00:35 tumeninodes in MTG water would be extremely nice with slight reflection, and maybe even a hint of sparkles (or tiny sun sparks)
00:36 KaadmY Yeah
00:36 * KaadmY will try to add that
00:36 KaadmY Also something that all games could benefit from is TINY details
00:36 KaadmY Like Overwatch
00:36 KaadmY For example, sand randomly has one or two pixels flicker to look shiny
00:36 tumeninodes the shadows in your images look really awesome though
00:36 KaadmY And shooting leaves drops leaves floating down
00:37 KaadmY No shadows BTW
00:37 KaadmY ^ in my screenies
00:37 KaadmY Just new lighting and specular
00:37 tumeninodes ? talking relook
00:38 KaadmY ?
00:38 tumeninodes at your screenshots
00:38 tumeninodes sorry *taking relook
00:38 KaadmY Hehe
00:40 tumeninodes My eyes were initially pulled to the darker areas of tree and leaf nodes... failed to look at the whole pictures
00:41 tumeninodes 0_o
00:41 KaadmY Heh
00:41 tumeninodes so, by now you see and understand why I was unable to do anything regarding shaders :D
00:41 KaadmY :DD
00:42 tumeninodes There are only small parts I began to understand when I was looking into them
00:43 tumeninodes but my memory is shit so... and my biggest level of "coding" is from when I used to be a switch tech with an Avaya distributor :P
00:45 tumeninodes hey, quick question... are you familiar with MC? visually I mean
00:45 KaadmY Not really
00:45 red-001 KaadmY, what did you implement for those screenshots?
00:46 tumeninodes Hi red-001
00:46 KaadmY red-001: directional shading that comes from the sun/moon and specular highlights
00:46 KaadmY Also hello :P
00:46 red-001 ah it looks pretty nice
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01:01 KaadmY Water specular <
01:06 KaadmY Oh right, I want to add shading to models tgoo
01:06 KaadmY too*
01:07 KaadmY Might need a bit of help with that since I can't figure out where models are rendered
01:09 Sokomine maikaumine present?
01:12 KaadmY How is the wieldhand lit?
01:12 KaadmY With my shader lighting (It's only enabled for mapblock meshes right now) the wieldhand is really dark
01:18 KaadmY Hm
01:18 KaadmY If I initialize the camera before the GameGlobalShaderConstantSetter, the wieldhand is darker
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01:20 KaadmY Also when can we get a pixel-perfect formspec system?
01:20 KaadmY It really can't be that hard
01:20 KaadmY I have no idea how formspec scaling currently works, but it should be trivial
01:21 tumeninodes does the same darkness happen to wielded items?
01:21 KaadmY Yep
01:21 tumeninodes hmmmm
01:22 KaadmY Wait a second
01:22 KaadmY I might have made a dumb
01:22 KaadmY Yeah I was running 0.4.16 stable not my dev one
01:22 KaadmY Camera doesn't make a difference
01:23 KaadmY Hm I might have change the wield shader
01:23 KaadmY Lemme revert it
01:24 tumeninodes afk
01:24 KaadmY Yeah my shader broke it
01:24 KaadmY Disregard my stupidity
01:24 tumeninodes only if you disregard mine :D... afk for bit
01:25 KaadmY Hmm so you de-afk'd to say you were afk
01:25 KaadmY Seems strange, but whatever
01:28 KaadmY Oh I think I know why
01:47 KaadmY Hmm, if you switch to an identical item in a different hotbar slot, there's no hand swap animation
01:51 KaadmY Dangit, random segfaults now ;(
01:55 Megaf I but is the iconic 128 bit floating point overflow excetion
01:55 Megaf expetion or whatever you spell this
01:56 KaadmY exception
01:56 tumeninodes Sorry if that seemed strange Kaadmy. I had only typed afk but had stepped back in as I forgot something, and heard the "bing"
01:57 KaadmY :D
01:57 KaadmY NP, was joking anyway :D
01:57 tumeninodes ah, ok.
01:59 KaadmY Is there a way to tell if a camera is valid?
01:59 tumeninodes I just tried the item swap with two identical items as you mentioned... That's so weird never even noticed this before
02:01 tumeninodes Kaadmy: are you asking "me" about the camera still valid, or Megaf? Or just in general?
02:01 KaadmY Just in general
02:02 KaadmY Because I have a camera pointer but it's freed somwehere but it's not set to null
02:02 KaadmY So it segfaults when I try to use it
02:02 tumeninodes k, good... cuz I'm dumb as a stump when it comes to what you're doing :P well, in computer coding as a whole
02:02 KaadmY Wait nvm
02:03 tumeninodes I just didn't want to appear as being rude :P
02:03 KaadmY No problem :)
02:04 tumeninodes I just really hope you keep at this and don't become frustrated with limitations in MT or irrlicht bugs
02:04 KaadmY I haven't touched anything related to Irrlicht yet
02:04 KaadmY Except vectors
02:05 KaadmY Well TBH I badly want to write my own voxel game engine, but it's just easier to fix what's already there
02:05 KaadmY At the very least I get practice
02:05 tumeninodes practice is always good
02:06 KaadmY General question, should my new shader lighting method be a seperate option?
02:06 tumeninodes always
02:06 KaadmY What I figured :P
02:06 tumeninodes many end users simply do not have the equipment to enjoy them
02:07 KaadmY I don't _notice_ a performance difference
02:07 KaadmY But I'd have to do actual benchmarks to find out
02:08 tumeninodes shaders will always impact performance one way or another
02:08 KaadmY Yeah
02:08 KaadmY Right now, the per-pixel shaders kill my framerate
02:08 KaadmY Ie. normalmaps, bumpmaps, parallax mapping, tonemapping
02:08 KaadmY Tonemapping is the worst
02:08 tumeninodes tonemapping is on full blast
02:08 KaadmY My specular actually doesn't seem to cause a big performance hit
02:09 KaadmY I'll add an option though
02:09 tumeninodes sad part is, you need tonemapping enabled, to use normalmaps
02:10 KaadmY Do you?
02:10 KaadmY I tried it without tonemapping, seemed to work
02:10 tumeninodes I believe so. I have enabled it without tonemapping and it did not.. hmmmm
02:15 tumeninodes I'm sorry... my brain freeze... it's bumpmapping that is needed with normalmaps
02:15 tumeninodes duhhhh
02:15 KaadmY Hehe
02:16 tumeninodes but, back to tonemapping... I "think" there are ways to add incremental settings to it?
02:16 KaadmY Like what?
02:17 tumeninodes currently, when one enables tonemapping, it is just blam in your face..., bright
02:17 KaadmY Hm, yeah
02:17 KaadmY Well it is just a color ramp
02:18 tumeninodes but is there not a way to decrease the brightness it throws off?
02:18 KaadmY Well you can
02:18 KaadmY But it'd be a different color ramp then
02:18 KaadmY Right now it's just a standard color ramp
02:19 KaadmY To be precise, Uncharted 2's tonemap
02:19 tumeninodes that's what I mean.. having something like a low...med...high setting bar in settings menu
02:21 tumeninodes is MT tonemapping linear?
02:23 KaadmY No, it's a really fancy color ramp
02:23 KaadmY https://github.com/minetest/minete​st/blob/master/client/shaders/node​s_shader/opengl_fragment.glsl#L38
02:28 tumeninodes so, there is much which can be accomplished with it
02:29 tumeninodes IDk, stuff makes my eyes boggle just looking at it. I envy people like you who can understand all this
02:29 KaadmY Eh trust me, I don't even understand it :P
02:30 tumeninodes coding is one of few things in my life I have never been able to wrap my head around and fully comprehend
02:30 tumeninodes well, you have a general understanding
02:32 tumeninodes it frustrates me greatly at my age :P I grew up pre-all cool tech stuff. I still miss rotary dial :D
02:33 tumeninodes and you can do more than turn MTG water into wine... like I did
02:34 KaadmY Thanks ;)
02:37 tumeninodes You're welcome. I watch this work because I know how much it can/will improve the game visually, which is very important today too many
02:37 KaadmY yeah
02:37 KaadmY Because **ck performance, we want shaders :P
02:37 KaadmY Okay I think I added all the relevant shader options
02:38 KaadmY To toggle specular and directional lighting
02:38 tumeninodes hahaha, this is true. Then when shaders... "Hey?! WHy so laggy?! Make better!!!
02:38 KaadmY IKR
02:39 KaadmY Well people can stop complaining that "Minetest has no shaders"
02:39 KaadmY Who cares if it's slow
02:39 tumeninodes I have seen MC with full options... and it lags
02:40 tumeninodes Even after these shaders... there will be excitement, then cries for the ones missing :P
02:41 KaadmY Yeah
02:41 tumeninodes It's a "gimme" world, heh
02:41 KaadmY Shadows and water reflections will probably be the hardest to implement
02:41 KaadmY Most other stuff is easy in theory but just requires time to implement post process shaders
02:42 KaadmY I believe RBA already did some work regarding post processing
02:42 KaadmY Not sure if it got into a mergeable state though
02:42 tumeninodes I imagine very hard work
02:42 tumeninodes RBA met a lot of resistance
02:43 tumeninodes but, different time, and I think maybe some of his ideas or implementations may have been a little over the top for MTG
02:46 tumeninodes as I have said..., I think if there are ways to implement such eye candy in MTG, it should be done on a light scale... (if possible), just a hint coolness would blend nicely. Water in MTG does not need to look "real", nor should it, it would just look odd and out of place
02:46 KaadmY Yes
02:46 KaadmY But I think having a pseudo reflection, ie. sparkles, would look very good
02:46 KaadmY And maybe underwater caustics
02:47 tumeninodes extremely cool
02:48 octacian__ joined #minetest-hub
02:48 KaadmY wb octacian_
02:48 tumeninodes Hey octatian
02:49 KaadmY Oh there's two octacians.. :P
02:49 KaadmY Wb octacian_ and octacian__
02:49 octacian joined #minetest-hub
02:50 tumeninodes ah there you are
02:50 KaadmY Yay finally
02:50 octacian heh
02:50 KaadmY Only took 3 alts and 1 name change
02:52 tumeninodes octacian is having a tough night
02:52 octacian Oh, I am?
02:52 tumeninodes wait? who are you?
02:52 KaadmY He's bob
02:53 * octacian is confused
02:53 tumeninodes so are we
02:53 tumeninodes :P
02:54 tumeninodes my defense is alzheimers : )
02:55 KaadmY Who's Alzheimers?
02:56 tumeninodes that's me! I'll have 1lb of ham and a half lb of cheese please
02:57 KaadmY No cheese please until you get a nasty disease that brings you to your knees and eats all the trees
02:57 KaadmY ^ my best rhyme ever
02:58 tumeninodes <booom> mind blown
02:59 tumeninodes hey, I gotta go be old. Keep up the great work! naht y'all
02:59 KaadmY Night
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03:17 KaadmY Wow, lighting is so hardcoded in Minetest
03:23 KaadmY Is CAO all entities?
03:23 KaadmY Rather, all visible models
03:34 KaadmY Ah, gotcha
03:34 KaadmY content_cao.cpp
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08:48 tenplus1 hi folks
08:49 Raven262 Hello tenplus1
08:49 tenplus1 heyas :P
08:49 tenplus1 whats new ?
08:49 Raven262 Working on my texture pack :D
08:49 tenplus1 ooh nice
08:50 tenplus1 I just uploaded new Mobs Redo API and Lucky Blocks mod
08:50 Raven262 I finished desert stone and desert stone brick: http://i.imgur.com/crR8WPf.png
08:50 tenplus1 looks nice dude
08:50 DS-minetest hi tenplus1
08:50 tenplus1 hi DS
08:50 Raven262 I had to break from the theme that i started upon
08:51 tenplus1 32px textures /
08:51 Raven262 Cause most of the nodes wouldn't fit the style
08:51 Raven262 Yea they are 32
08:51 tenplus1 curious what you'll do with desertstone cobble :D
08:51 Raven262 I'm curious too xD
08:52 Raven262 I have no idea for most of them
08:52 Raven262 Even ordinary cobble is gonna be a challenge
08:52 tenplus1 ehehe...  I like the fact it uses small slate-like gaps instead of larger normal stone cobble
08:52 Raven262 I would probably make it like that
08:52 Raven262 Wait
08:52 Raven262 That is a good idea
08:52 Raven262 I know how to make desert cobble
08:53 tenplus1 gives a little variety
08:53 Raven262 DO you possibly know of some building that is built only out of stone, stone bricks and stone blocks? I need to test my textures :P
08:53 Raven262 ?Do
08:53 Raven262 *Do
08:54 Raven262 :P
08:54 tenplus1 not offhand, but most of Xanadu spawn is stone anyhow if you wanna peek
08:54 Raven262 I'll test it :D
08:54 tenplus1 I switched mobs api and LB to use tnt.boom if available... saves me a LOT of coding :DDD
08:55 Raven262 lol
08:56 tenplus1 https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/pull/1823
08:58 Raven262 I wonder what will people use this for eventually.
08:58 DS-minetest +
08:58 DS-minetest tenplus1: do you have a really good usecase?
08:59 tenplus1 yes, lucky blocks has an explosion block that can be customized in radius and sound effect :)
08:59 tenplus1 it's currently set to "tnt_explode" by default if this pull isnt found, but my standalone tnt mod has it and it works fine :D
08:59 tenplus1 e.g.  blocks or custom tnt giong supernova... special sfx
09:00 tenplus1 even a really huge fart sound that destroys the landscape :P it's all good
09:00 DS-minetest but well, for so special things, normally the tnt api is not good to use
09:01 tenplus1 tnt.boom() function is really handy for explosions no matter what mod uses it... it handles removal of blocks, on_explode function and item drops...
09:01 tenplus1 the addition of a custom sound just makes it more friendly to use for special cases
09:02 DS-minetest mhm, nothing really speaks against it
09:02 Raven262 "tnt.boom()" I wonder who thought of that name.
09:02 tenplus1 :P
09:02 DS-minetest it's short
09:02 Raven262 Its awesome
09:03 tenplus1 one of my pulls was to keep tnt.boom function alive even when tnt itself was disabled in-game
09:03 tenplus1 cause it's such a handy thing to have
09:04 DS-minetest yeah, but it should not delete the center pos node's drop
09:05 DS-minetest i forgot to make an issue about it some time ago
09:06 tenplus1 there's always time :D
09:06 tenplus1 +100 on corner stairs now in default :D
09:07 DS-minetest i'll make that issue now
09:07 tenplus1 :PPPPP
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09:14 DS-minetest game#1825
09:17 tenplus1 if you take line 388 and place it after 390 would that drop centre ?
09:32 DS-minetest maybe, i havent looked
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09:43 tenplus1 hi lisac hi Jordach
10:06 Krock hi tenplus1
10:06 tenplus1 hey Krock
10:06 shivajiva Hi tenplus, Krock
10:07 tenplus1 hi shiva :P
10:08 * shivajiva goes in search of the custom tnt:boom with tnt disabled
10:08 shivajiva I see DOOMed vehicles uses it for missiles :)
10:09 tenplus1 they do ? crap... hold on
10:09 tenplus1 oh wait, that's fine
10:09 tenplus1 ahahahaha, for some reason I was thinking of mobs:exlosion
10:10 tenplus1 tnt.boom is a handy function to have :) perfect use-case in D00Med vehicles :P so custom sound would be perfect for that too
10:11 shivajiva they do particles and then tnt:boom for the damage, I believe it honours protection
10:11 tenplus1 yeah :)
10:12 Krock hi shivajiva
10:13 shivajiva the sound is a bit weird, seems to continue after destroying the vehicle, I had to move away from the position to get it to stop
10:18 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
10:19 tenplus1 hi nrz
10:20 Grandolf joined #minetest-hub
10:31 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
10:35 tenplus1 hi fixer
10:35 Fixer hi
10:37 Krock o/ Fixer, nerzhul
10:37 Fixer Krock: \o
10:38 Fixer this emoticon always reminds me of xkcd for some reason
10:39 nerzhul hi Krock
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11:03 tenplus1 hi calcul0n
11:05 calcul0n hi
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11:11 tenplus1 wb sniper
11:15 Megaf Morning all
11:16 tenplus1 hi Megaf
11:18 calcul0n joined #minetest-hub
11:18 Megaf Yesterday I learned that my 2014 ultra cheap and low end laptop has a more powerful GPU than my former workstation
11:18 Calinou heh
11:19 Calinou what GPU?
11:19 Calinou hi tenplus1
11:19 tenplus1 hi Cal :P
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11:21 Megaf tenplus1: Im still trying to figure ou the exact model
11:21 Megaf 01:05.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RS880 [Radeon HD 4200
11:21 tenplus1 Ati Radeon Hd 4200... not bad
11:22 Megaf the laptop have a Radeon R2 series,350 MHz
11:23 tenplus1 latest kernel 4.12 will improve performance as well
11:23 Megaf for the HD 4200 or R2?
11:25 tenplus1 both... ati open source drivers have had major improvements with each release
11:25 Megaf Im still on Debian Jessie, perhaps Stretch will improve here
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11:27 Megaf http://www.game-debate.com/gpu/index.php?gi​d=342&amp;gid2=2362&amp;compare=AMD%20Radeo​n%20HD%204200-vs-AMD%20Radeon%20R2%206010
11:28 Megaf "The Graphics Card also shares the processor's L2 Cache of 1MB. Therefore, it reduces the need to resort to its memory bandwidth."
11:28 Megaf Thats about the R2
11:28 Megaf very interesting
11:29 tenplus1 :P
11:30 Megaf but, 1 MB...
11:30 Megaf The solution is playing everything at 480p
11:35 Krock that would fit on a floppy
11:35 tenplus1 :P
11:35 tenplus1 1mb isnt too big on a pc
11:39 Megaf well, for cache L1 it'd be ok
11:40 Megaf because it's extremely fast
11:40 Megaf And I am running quite and old kernel too [    0.000000] Linux version 3.16.0-4-amd64 (debian-kernel@lists.debian.org) (gcc version 4.8.4 (Debian 4.8.4-1) ) #1 SMP Debian 3.16.43-2+deb8u2 (2017-06-26)
11:41 Megaf [    0.000000] AGP: Please enable the IOMMU option in the BIOS setup
11:41 Megaf [    0.000000] AGP: This costs you 64MB of RAM
11:41 Megaf what!?
11:42 tenplus1 make a bootable flash drive with Lubuntu 17.04 and test that on your lappy
11:48 Krock From the imaginary M$ fail channel: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help​/3053711/high-cpu-use-by-taskhost.exe-wh​en-windows-8.1-user-name-contains-user
11:48 tenplus1 lolol
11:48 Krock and if this was a /r/ProgrammerHumor entry:   "Source code revealed! while (username.Contains("user"));"
11:49 Krock i.e. infinite loop
11:49 tenplus1 whatever happened to the win10 source code that was released on the web
11:50 Krock burnt by the FOSS devs, helpfully
11:50 Krock *hopefully
11:52 tenplus1 lets see how many interesting things they pull out of the code for us to see :PPP
12:11 Fixer interesting security vulnerabs?
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12:14 tenplus1 wb cx384
12:14 cx384 hey tenplus1
12:17 tenplus1 thanks for the thumbs up on the tnt pull :PP running it locally and it works well
12:18 cx384 np
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13:31 tenplus1 hi DI3HARD139
13:32 octacian Hey tenplus1 :D
13:32 tenplus1 hi octacian
13:32 DI3HARD139 Hello tenplus1
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13:33 tenplus1 hi sc3k
13:33 sc3k hi tenplus1
13:38 octacian Well, I was going to try and finish my modmgr rewrite, but I think I'll try and finish my morphing mod first :D
13:38 tenplus1 ooh, whassat do ?
13:41 octacian Whenever you kill any entity (aside from __builtin ones), they get added to a morph list accessible via formspec essentially allowing the player to disguise as that entity
13:41 tenplus1 ooh, like the minecraft mod :P I like that idea
13:43 tenplus1 model change with texture ?
13:43 octacian Yes.
13:43 octacian If the entity has a texture or visual size it will use that, otherwise keep defaults from player
13:43 tenplus1 sweet :P
13:43 octacian It won't morph at all if no visual is set
13:43 * octacian just realized that he forgot to update the actual visual reference >_<
13:43 tenplus1 if I morph into a bat, will it allow me to fly ?
13:44 octacian I haven't taken things like that into account yet.
13:44 octacian In fact, probably won't worry about that right away
13:44 tenplus1 :P
13:44 octacian ugh. How hard would it be to make it so that all formspec elements used an equal unit!?
13:45 octacian if they did, formspecs would actual be usable, although still not best
13:45 tenplus1 things not lining up ?
13:46 octacian OK, I place a table at x = 10 on a formspec.
13:46 octacian it lines up with another button beneath it at x = 10
13:46 octacian I set it's width to five. However, it's wider than the button beneath it which also has a width of 5.
13:47 tenplus1 does table have scrollbar ?
13:47 octacian Nope.
13:47 octacian Just general formspec inconsistencies
13:48 octacian Almost everyone knows that formspecs simply don't line up.
13:48 tenplus1 damn... things need to line up...
13:48 octacian Well, 4.8 wide on a table = 5 wide on a button
13:49 tenplus1 isnt there a formspec creator for minetest ?
13:50 octacian Yeah. Several.
13:50 octacian You talking about the online or in-game one?
13:51 tenplus1 either/or
13:51 tenplus1 just curious if what you make appears as it should
13:52 octacian Well, the online one doesn't work very well
13:52 Grandolf joined #minetest-hub
13:52 octacian There's two in-game ones, one by addi and one by me
13:52 tenplus1 :)
13:52 octacian mine is essentially a far improved one based off addi's
13:55 tenplus1 gotta check it out sometime :P
13:56 tenplus1 have always fiddled with values when making formspec
13:57 octacian Yeah.
13:57 octacian I honestly don't use it much
13:57 tenplus1 at one point I gotta convert Simple Skins and Bags/Sethome to use sfinv instead of inventory plus
13:57 octacian Never had time to get one very useful feature finished, that being detecting the working formspec size and changing the background to match it
13:58 octacian And then I still can't copy into Minetest properly, so
13:58 tenplus1 erk
13:59 lisac octacian, Can I get a link to that tool?
14:00 octacian lisac: Looking...
14:00 octacian lisac: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=16594
14:00 octacian It also has a metadata editor, but I have a feeling that it's kinda bugged if there's tons of meta values
14:00 octacian Haven't been able to work on that mod for a while :/
14:01 lisac thanks !
14:01 lisac I was searching for a tool like it for a long time
14:01 lisac the online one doesn't seem very precise
14:02 tenplus1 nice
14:03 tenplus1 hrm, sfinv uses a common background/formspec theme so simple skins cannot be made to run properly .. dammit
14:05 KaadmY I'd love to standardize formspecs a bit
14:05 tenplus1 hi KaadmY
14:05 KaadmY And at the very least make them pixel-perfect
14:05 KaadmY Hullo tenplus1
14:05 octacian Yeah, that'd make them much easier to work with
14:05 lisac KaadmY, why make the pixel perfect?
14:05 lisac that wouldn't scale well with different resolutions
14:05 KaadmY lisac: because they're ugly right now
14:05 tenplus1 I could simplify the mod by removing inventory+ and sfinv support and just having a wardrobe block... but that's already been done
14:06 * octacian waits for someone to start complaining about how it'd break old formspecs
14:06 KaadmY lisac: it could easily be an option
14:06 KaadmY t
14:06 lisac maybe give a function to get screenw and screenh?
14:06 lisac then divide them with ten, and you've got the number of pixels per 1 formspec unit
14:06 octacian lisac: That'd be easy for one, I believe we already have it in the main menu
14:06 KaadmY No, all it has to do is change the formspec/HUD scale to match a good screen aspect
14:06 KaadmY Should be easy I'd guess
14:07 octacian Yes, that'd be the way to go.
14:07 lisac why not simply convert formspecs to HTML and CSS?
14:07 lisac also add JS scripting
14:07 * KaadmY barfs
14:07 tenplus1 ahaha
14:07 lisac and read MT forums in minetest
14:07 lisac :O
14:07 KaadmY Well
14:07 lisac maybe even play some online games
14:07 lisac :P
14:07 KaadmY Like Minetest
14:07 KaadmY In a browser
14:07 octacian no, no JS scripting, pls
14:07 lisac we're onto something
14:08 lisac Warzone2100 has JS scripting
14:08 lisac heh better JS than lue
14:08 lisac *lua
14:08 * tenplus1 likes lua
14:08 octacian There was a guy that was working on implementing a working browser in a Minetest formspec, but that's unrelated
14:08 octacian Lua is quite nice, and I'm very familiar with JS.
14:09 lisac we don't need a working browser, do we?
14:09 lisac just something better then these formspecs
14:09 tenplus1 in-game, we dont actually need a browser at all
14:09 octacian The *only* nicer thing about JS than Lua is the easy object orientation
14:09 octacian No, we don't. However, it'd be cool :P
14:09 Raven262 BUt how could i place adds on my server without a working browser?
14:09 octacian But that still doesn't deal with the formspec issue
14:09 Raven262 *ads
14:09 lisac Raven262, what about popups?
14:09 Raven262 Yes!
14:10 lisac we also need vibration control
14:10 octacian The current formspec system is honestly OK, if only the units were all equal
14:10 tenplus1 I can handle a bit of tweaking, but yeah... it would be nice for things to line up easily
14:11 lisac hm what would be a nice improvement is keeping formspecs in a separate file
14:11 lisac ex. not inside the code
14:11 octacian Also, no.
14:11 lisac no?
14:11 octacian That would just become messy :P
14:11 tenplus1 yeh
14:11 tenplus1 easier to check and handle inside code
14:12 octacian I'd far prefer to see a library like "formspec:add_button(...)"
14:12 octacian local formspec = formspec(width, height); formspec:add_button(...); formspec:set_background(...); etc...
14:12 tenplus1 you could possibly make an api to do just that
14:13 octacian Definitely. However, it should be implemented in the engine rather than working off the current system
14:13 lisac heh that works too
14:13 tenplus1 someone has to make a working model first in lua... and if it gains popularity then who knows
14:13 lisac something like wxWidgets
14:14 octacian tenplus1: I honestly see no need for a Lua model, although it'd be very easy
14:14 octacian ...but messy due to the implementation
14:14 tenplus1 it's more of a test bed...
14:15 octacian But honestly, is it really needed?
14:15 octacian It's not like you have to write something in one language before writing it in the other, just see if people like the concept
14:15 tenplus1 I had a Dialog System written in AMOS before that did just that... was handy but all function designed
14:18 KaadmY Well ads could very easily be a text link or image
14:18 * octacian thinks that ads don't really need to be considered in all this :rofl:
14:18 KaadmY And actually unless you use a computer- or network-wide adblock it'd be hard to avoid them :P
14:18 tenplus1 heh
14:18 KaadmY Just saying ;)
14:18 KaadmY Ads don't _have_ to be in HTML
14:19 octacian I have a better idea
14:19 octacian No ads at all! :P
14:19 tenplus1 yup
14:19 KaadmY Hm good idea
14:19 DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub
14:19 CWz tenplus1, Do protectors or spawn_protection prevent mobs from attack players?
14:19 tenplus1 wb DS
14:20 KaadmY Hm someone responded to #6097 but it's not there
14:20 KaadmY Only as an email notification
14:20 tenplus1 CWz: nope, but you can use the settings to stop mobs spawning inside protected areas and mob rune to stop players killing your tamed animals inside protected area
14:20 DS-minetest thx tenplus1
14:20 CWz which setting
14:22 tenplus1 in mobs redo use 'mobs_spawn_protected = 0" to stop them spawning inside protected areas
14:22 octacian ugh, Why does tor take so long to launch?
14:22 CWz hmm.
14:22 octacian Finally :D (literally 2 minutes later)
14:22 tenplus1 oops, make that 1 to disable mob spawning inside protected areas
14:23 CWz in minetest.conf?
14:23 tenplus1 yeh
14:23 CWz tanks
14:23 CWz ... and b-17 bombers too
14:23 tenplus1 :P
14:24 Fixer ads are cancer
14:24 tenplus1 hi fixer
14:25 KaadmY Hi breaker
14:29 Grandolf joined #minetest-hub
14:31 * CWz worries the website of minetest being coming ad supported now that bread costs $100
14:33 Fixer hi
14:34 tenplus1 o.O  - are you buying gold plated bread ???? da hell
14:35 CWz hmm, thinks that if a player encloses himself with a bunch of cows, the should start taking damage due to cow flatulence replacing the air
14:35 KaadmY Wow nice idea
14:35 tenplus1 try punching one of the cows, you'll soon see damage :D
14:36 CWz #truecauseofglobalwarming
14:36 tenplus1 ehehe
14:37 KaadmY Darn. "Floating point exception (core dumped)"
14:39 lisac hey can I get an account on the dev wiki?
14:39 lisac there's some stuff I need to edit
14:39 octacian lisac: Ask someone like Calinou
14:39 lisac alright, thanks
14:40 lisac Calinou?
14:41 KaadmY What's ItemCAO used for?
14:42 KaadmY Seems unused
14:45 tenplus1 ?
14:46 KaadmY There's code for an ItemCAObut it seems unused
14:49 tenplus1 can you tell what it does.. might help finding what it's for
14:50 KaadmY Seems like a really dumb entity
14:50 octacian KaadmY: Interesting. So far item entities just use LuaEntitySAO
14:50 Calinou hi
14:50 KaadmY Just a bbox, pos, and item it seems
14:50 KaadmY Yo Calinou
14:50 Calinou lisac: PM me your email and desired username (note, it will start with an uppercase character)
14:50 tenplus1 mark it as an issue to be removed if unused
14:51 lisac k :)
14:55 DS-minetest can you get the world's seed in csm?
14:58 octacian DS-minetest: Nope.
15:02 DS-minetest hm, i could send the mapgen params with csm_com to csm and make a csm chatcommand to show it
15:02 benrob0329 Does Minetest ship with a man page?
15:02 octacian You know, no offence but I honestly think that your csm_com is pretty pointless
15:02 tenplus1 hi benrob
15:02 benrob0329 Hi tenplus1
15:02 octacian The real solution is to implement things like per-world/server storage in the official API
15:02 lisac octacian, I don't think so. It's a nice work around till they implement actual communication
15:02 octacian And wait for official communication
15:03 octacian After all, the chances of someone actually installing csm_com on a server are very low
15:03 DS-minetest i think like lisac
15:03 tenplus1 why would a csm mod need to read the seed ? it cant do anything with it
15:03 octacian lisac: Yes, but when you could spend that time expanding the official API to do it properly...
15:03 lisac tenplus1, It could replicate it and show ore positions
15:03 lisac or rather predict them
15:03 DS-minetest tenplus1: it can print it so, that the player don't has to transcribe it
15:04 tenplus1 hrm
15:04 octacian I dunno, I still think it'd be better just just take the time to fix the real issue in the engine
15:04 benrob0329 Having client server data sending in general would be far more useful
15:05 benrob0329 Then we could send skins
15:05 octacian lisac: Predicting ore positions? That sounds like another "cheat" that's gonna nearly get client-loaded CSMs entirely removed again (like DS's ore finder thingy)
15:06 octacian benrob0329: No, an official skins API needs to be implemented that's entirely independent of mods. From what I've seen, it's the only possible way to do it efficiently
15:06 tenplus1 personally I dont like csm
15:06 lisac tenplus1, why not?
15:06 tenplus1 to many ways to cheat
15:06 lisac World of Warcraft has client mods
15:06 tenplus1 I dont want players running any mod that I dont have on server
15:06 octacian tenplus1: Reality is that they can't modify the server and they can't cheat in any way that they couldn't before
15:06 tenplus1 texture packs and sound sets are fine
15:06 benrob0329 octacian: that still needs data transfer
15:07 lisac tenplus1, what if your server is running unified inv, but a player dislikes unified inv?
15:07 octacian Aside from when we have people making clientmods that allow doing things like detecting ores :/
15:07 lisac he can just use a CSM and use another inv
15:07 benrob0329 And break gameplay
15:07 octacian +1 to that :D
15:07 octacian uhhh, How?
15:07 benrob0329 Inv is often used for custom menus
15:07 octacian And does it really matter seeing as it was the client that chose to do so?
15:08 tenplus1 yeah, personal inventory setup would break game and any custom features it sets
15:08 octacian What if they specifically didn't want those custom menus or features?
15:08 benrob0329 And what if they gained some?
15:08 octacian Considering the usecase, currently impossible.
15:08 octacian (to gain extra features that is)
15:09 benrob0329 Craft guide, crafting, etc
15:09 DS-minetest i really hat it that people are generally so hard and fussy against "cheating"
15:09 octacian Seriously. The worse that CSM can currently do is find ores with oredetect ("thanks" DS :/ - I really need to quite blaming you for stuff :rofl:)
15:09 tenplus1 craft guide should really be built into inventory anyhow... or default in game
15:09 octacian No, seriously though. CSM can't really do any damage.
15:09 benrob0329 Its a whole nother thing to plan for
15:10 octacian When it comes to oredetect, IMO either quite complaining or remove the API feature that made it possible and replace it with something like get_biome for ambiance mods
15:10 DS-minetest oredetect isn't even useful, does anyone successfully use it?
15:10 benrob0329 Right now it cant, but if custom invs become a thing
15:10 octacian DS-minetest: Yes. I had a player on HOMETOWN literally stacking gold with it.
15:10 lisac If CSM can do any damage to server, it's probably badly designed
15:10 tenplus1 +1... would rather have get_biome get_heat get_humidity than csm
15:10 lisac ex. WoW CSM can't do anything server doesn't allow
15:10 DS-minetest also i made it because i didn't beliefe that something like find_nodes_near was added
15:11 octacian tenplus1: No, I'm suggesting get_biome in CSM
15:11 tenplus1 ahh, would be better for localised player features
15:11 benrob0329 lisac: WoW also isn't modifiable
15:11 octacian Yes, as a replacement for the find_nodes_near, which I have to agree is kinda cheaty
15:11 lisac benrob0329, There are Lua mods for WoW
15:12 lisac 'addons'
15:12 DS-minetest or find_node_near could simply just return a boolean
15:12 octacian If they do end up removing client loading CSMs, I'll still be happy but I honestly think still that the benefits outweigh the disadvantages
15:12 benrob0329 Very controlled ones
15:12 octacian DS-minetest: Less dangerous, but still cheaty
15:12 lisac https://github.com/ericraio/vanilla-wow-addons/
15:12 benrob0329 Minetest can be changed internally to remove safeguards
15:12 benrob0329 WoW cant
15:12 lisac only if safeguards are client side
15:12 DS-minetest octacian: somehow true, i already think about an easy way to still find the pos
15:13 octacian benrob0329: That's something that comes with open source software.
15:13 octacian DS-minetest: What? get_node?
15:13 DS-minetest noo
15:13 octacian OK?
15:14 benrob0329 East way to not have ore detect: don't load nodes client cant see
15:14 octacian benrob0329: But incredibly laggy. Definitely not the solution
15:14 DS-minetest if it finds the node near, it goes with the pos to right, up, down, … and searches there with a lower range and repeats this until the range is 1, when it instead uses get_node
15:14 benrob0329 Better than rendering things you cant see
15:14 octacian If you do that, then you immediately get a far worse noclip bug as you wait for the area to load.
15:15 octacian DS-minetest: eh, Just entirely remove find node near
15:15 octacian If get_biome was implemented I'd see no reason to keep find node near
15:16 DS-minetest it's really annoying imo that people care soo much about cheating, it's the own fault of the cheaters. as long as they don't do anything evil it's ok imo
15:16 octacian ...and remember it is kinda your fault for providing the cheaters with an incredibly easy way to cheat like oredetect :P
15:16 octacian uhhh, It's nearly impossible not to cheat with oredetect :P
15:17 octacian It's practically a primitive version of xray
15:17 tenplus1 it's the fact that server owners take the time and effort to setup mods to run on server and have things a certain way... only to have csm allow players to do other things that spoil the game or give unfair advantage
15:17 octacian tenplus1: However, unless CSM is broken there'd be no way for them to get an unfair advantage
15:18 octacian Out of curiosity, how would you feel if CSMs could only be injected from the server?
15:18 tenplus1 that would be fine...  server selected mods to run client-side is fine by me
15:18 tenplus1 it gives server owner control
15:19 octacian Yes, I'm with you on that one
15:19 octacian However, I'm still unconvinced that client-loaded CSMs could possibly be dangerous.
15:19 octacian I mean, you can turn it around with server injected CSMs that now the server gets to control the client and could even damage it if CSM is broken
15:19 octacian I honestly am hoping to see both TBH.
15:20 KaadmY Why does find_nodes_near even exist in CSM
15:20 KaadmY It doesn't make any sense at all
15:20 DS-minetest octacian: i really never wanted to provide cheaters an easy way to cheat, i thought, find_node_near would be changed/removed anyway and that someone else would do it if not me
15:21 octacian I dunno. get_biomes would make more sense
15:21 benrob0329 KaadmY: ambiance mods
15:21 octacian DS-minetest: Yes, I understand. However it'd have been preferable had you not done that at all.
15:21 KaadmY benrob0329: oh, okay
15:21 DS-minetest it scares me that cheaters now know my name :P
15:21 octacian benrob0329: get_biome. It would be entirely suitable for ambience
15:21 tenplus1 ambience redo can now load music from client-side
15:21 KaadmY octacian: that wouldn't be suitable
15:21 tenplus1 if server if provided
15:21 octacian tenplus1: sound packs?
15:21 benrob0329 However, it should be very limited (eg only what is visible)
15:22 KaadmY Also biomes are server side only
15:22 octacian KaadmY: Why not?
15:22 tenplus1 music only for now... doesnt replace sfx
15:22 KaadmY octacian: for example, bird sounds near trees
15:22 Fixer THE FINEST__
15:22 DS-minetest hm, ive got an idea
15:22 KaadmY Water near flowing water nodes
15:22 KaadmY Crickets near grass
15:22 octacian KaadmY: An API to get the name of the biome could be at least a start
15:22 benrob0329 No! No bird sounds!!
15:22 KaadmY octacian: yes, that should be server side though first :P
15:22 KaadmY The client doesn't have any biome/mapgen data
15:22 octacian KaadmY: I agree entirely. However, it would be a solution
15:23 KaadmY benrob0329: bird sounds >:}
15:23 KaadmY MOAR BERD SAUNDS
15:23 tenplus1 lolol
15:23 benrob0329 I hate having bird sounds with no birds, and cave drips in a bone dry cave
15:23 DS-minetest i could change oredetect so, that it randomly gives random positions and saves them until they (or a neighbored?) are punched
15:23 KaadmY In Pixture I have bird sounds
15:24 KaadmY But they actuall come from leaf nodes
15:24 octacian You know, I still think that the best solution is to limit find_nodes_near to nodes in the viewing range or touching air
15:24 paramat joined #minetest-hub
15:24 KaadmY Hi paramat
15:24 octacian DS-minetest: That'd be an option. I honestly though thing that the best solution would be to just take oredetect off github and the forums.
15:24 benrob0329 KaadmY: but no birds
15:24 KaadmY benrob0329 yes birds
15:24 tenplus1 hi paramat
15:24 octacian benrob0329: heh, You know, that's kinda out of the range of this discussion :P
15:24 octacian hey paramat :D
15:24 benrob0329 KaadmY: then have birds sounds come from birds
15:25 benrob0329 Not leaves
15:25 KaadmY benrob0329: birds would be a big mess to add
15:25 KaadmY Since they'd have to be entities etc
15:25 benrob0329 Have drip sounds come from water, not caves
15:25 octacian Yeah. They would be. Apparently it's also laggy, someone implemented it in a subgame before
15:25 benrob0329 KaadmY: well, them there isnt anything to make noise now is there?
15:25 KaadmY benrob0329: still waves crashing ;)
15:26 benrob0329 The water is still
15:26 * KaadmY sighs
15:26 DS-minetest octacian: the ones who already have the mod would find ways to share it
15:26 tenplus1 ambience is just that, for ambience... effect... doesnt need real birds and animals etc to be present
15:26 octacian DS-minetest: Yeah, but it doesn't mean you have to promote it. It's the most you can do
15:26 octacian *least, least you can do :rofl:
15:26 KaadmY Well ambience wouldn't be needed if the world wasn't so static
15:26 benrob0329 Yes, but it breaks immertion to have imaginary birds and imaginary waves
15:26 KaadmY It also breaks immersion to have no sound whatsoever
15:26 benrob0329 That don't even sound right for the game
15:27 Kallog joined #minetest-hub
15:27 * DS-minetest is thinking of solutions
15:27 benrob0329 KaadmY: give lava, and moving water sound
15:27 tenplus1 it's the little things in a game that count...  sounds and sights and particles etc all add to the effect of aliving world
15:27 DS-minetest ah
15:27 octacian hmmm. Apparently limiting find_nodes_near to only nodes which the player can see at the time is too resource intensive
15:27 benrob0329 Make footsteps echo in caves
15:27 octacian However, how bad would it be to just limit to nodes exposed to air?
15:28 DS-minetest i'll make a ssm that can stop oredetect
15:28 KaadmY benrob0329: no echoing footsteps yet, server-side mods, remember?
15:28 octacian DS-minetest: Are you kidding me?
15:28 paramat DS-minetest : "i really hat it that people are generally so hard and fussy against "cheating"" try talking to some server admin. also cheating destroys the fun of a server
15:28 octacian DS-minetest: You make a mod. Then you make another mod to stop the first mod rather than just removing the first mod -,-
15:28 KaadmY I'd love to do that if I could
15:28 DS-minetest paramat: it destroys the fun for the cheaters
15:28 KaadmY But I just can't do it well in Minetest right now
15:29 paramat FFS DS
15:29 DS-minetest what does FFS mean?
15:29 paramat octacian : "Seriously. The worse that CSM can currently do is find ores with oredetect" that's bad enough
15:29 KaadmY For f**ks sake
15:29 octacian DS-minetest: Seriously. Think about what you're saying. You write a CSM and then write a SSM to prevent the CSM from working. Just remove the CSM!
15:30 octacian paramat: Yes, it is. I agree. However, in theory it shouldn't get any worse :P
15:30 Krock DS-minetest, real cheaters should learn modifying the C++ source. Using Lua is too easy
15:30 paramat octacian: "No, seriously though. CSM can't really do any damage." you're so wrong
15:30 DS-minetest + Krock
15:31 octacian paramat: Now, didn't you mention a while back that limiting find_nodes_near to nodes that the player could see was too resource intensive? What about limiting to nodes exposed to air?
15:31 DS-minetest ill backup the current oredetect on my pc and beginn to change it now.
15:31 octacian paramat: Yes, I know. I meant that outside of the damage that can be caused by find_nodes_near and the likes.
15:31 paramat DS, cheaters are our number one enemy, their fun means nothing
15:31 octacian DS-minetest: Can you please just remove oredetect entirely. It's impossible to use without cheating. And, as paramat just said...
15:32 benrob0329 Ambiance (music) should be flowing, change with the scenery, not the biom
15:32 octacian TBH, it's impossible to change oredetect in a fashion that it wouldn't be considered cheating.
15:33 octacian benrob0329: Yeah, I agree. However, something must be implemented to limit how powerful the API is that is used to check the scenery.
15:33 benrob0329 It should be dark and mysterious in caves, and bright and dreamy in a field of flowers
15:33 Krock using C++ you can make the client dig all ores around you. oredetect isn't the best way to cheat
15:33 benrob0329 And it shouldnt cut from one track to another
15:34 KaadmY Well at the absolute least, getting nodes should be limiter to a 3-node radius around the player or so
15:34 benrob0329 It should flow, like most games
15:34 KaadmY Heh I have an idea
15:34 KaadmY Make leaves emit birds sqwaking when you punch them
15:35 KaadmY squawking*
15:35 benrob0329 that's work
15:35 paramat DS-minetest :"it's really annoying imo that people care soo much about cheating, it's the own fault of the cheaters. as long as they don't do anything evil it's ok imo" i can't believe the crap you're writing :] cheating is evil
15:36 benrob0329 In singleplayer, cheating is fine
15:36 benrob0329 But not on a server
15:36 DS-minetest i mean real evil stuff
15:36 octacian paramat: What about limiting find_nodes_near to nodes next to air though?
15:37 octacian DS-minetest: Seriously though. Could you please just remove oredetect?
15:37 DS-minetest octacian: i'm doing something better, just wait
15:37 octacian Sure, people with copies will still have it, but it will prevent it from spreading too much more and creating more annoyed server owners.
15:37 octacian Oh god. What are you doing?
15:37 KaadmY DS-minetest: please make it report the usernames of people that use it <3
15:37 octacian +1
15:37 octacian :rofl:
15:38 paramat "i really never wanted to provide cheaters an easy way to cheat, i thought [...] that someone else would do it if not me" great defense there :]
15:38 DS-minetest KaadmY: that's my plan
15:38 tenplus1 ???
15:38 octacian ugh, Seriously. Just remove the mod from GitHub.
15:39 octacian DS-minetest: That is honestly the worst solution. Literally anybody could find the line that reports them for using it and remove that line. They don't even have to recompile it as with C++.
15:40 KaadmY It'll be fine as long as the commit message is "Update localization files"
15:40 DS-minetest octacian: im trying to hide it
15:40 * KaadmY groans
15:40 DS-minetest but im not good in such stuff >_<
15:40 paramat limiting to nodes in viewing range still returns many hidden nodes, limiting to those touching air still returns those hidden but next to air pockets or caves
15:40 octacian Just remove the freaking mod!
15:41 DS-minetest just let me do it
15:41 octacian paramat: Whoops, I didn't mean those in viewing range but those in line of sight
15:41 paramat really, oredetect and any cheaty CSM mod should be removed from the forum
15:41 octacian paramat: +1
15:42 octacian And that xray texture pack -,-
15:42 DS-minetest "detecting ores is like eating yellow snow"
15:45 paramat KaadmY :"Well at the absolute least, getting nodes should be limiter to a 3-node radius around the player or so" range has been suggested, however even a 2 node radius exposes hidden nodes so is still cheating, no radius is harmless except 1 which is useless anyway
15:45 benrob0329 Visible nodes should be detectable
15:46 paramat cheating is real evil, talk to a sever admin about it
15:46 benrob0329 Since you could see those anyways
15:46 tenplus1 if engine would store nodes at player foot, head and underfoot level and allow mod access it would speed many things up not having to get them all the time for mods
15:47 benrob0329 And don't give me the "raytracing is too heavy" because doom used it to render the whole freaking world
15:47 KaadmY benrob0329: nope
15:47 KaadmY DooM basically used linear interpolation
15:47 KaadmY No raytracing, at all
15:47 paramat (sorry still catching up on logs) line of sight is still slightly cheaty because it exposes nodes hidden by darkness, would be very intensive too
15:48 KaadmY http://fabiensanglard.net/doom​Iphone/doomClassicRenderer.php
15:48 benrob0329 KaadmY: shii....
15:48 octacian paramat: Much better though IMO.
15:49 KaadmY The original Wolfenstein 3d used raytracing, but it was really low quality (320 ray traces per frame) and 2d on an axis-aligned grid
15:49 KaadmY Which isn't really raytracing, more interpolation once again
15:50 octacian I either forgot or never got an answer. What about limiting find_nodes_near to nodes next to air?
15:50 benrob0329 KaadmY: that's what I got mixed up
15:50 benrob0329 octacian: still cheaty
15:50 octacian How exactly?
15:50 octacian Being able to "see" nodes in the dark?
15:51 benrob0329 Still showing nodes that arent visible
15:51 paramat yeah i wrote: limiting to those touching air still returns those hidden but next to air pockets or caves
15:52 paramat or nodes hidden in a room behind a wall
15:52 octacian But when combined with a radius limit of, say, 5 or 10, the issue would be mostly solved
15:52 octacian Seeing as the only other solution is to remove it entirely
15:52 benrob0329 What if we had a get_node_types sited in most used to least per mapblock
15:52 octacian Which is suboptimal due to ambience
15:52 benrob0329 *sorted
15:52 octacian That could work...
15:53 paramat so tenplus1 see https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/pull/5930#issuecomment-312990834 the restriction PR has no option for disabling all CSM functions, you might want to rquest that
15:53 benrob0329 It could be used for ambiance, but really doesn't pinpoint ores
15:54 paramat no, as i wrote a radius of 2 will show noddes hidden behind a wall, it's still seroius cheating
15:54 octacian paramat: I don't see the point of disabling all of them, definitely still like get_node, find_nodes_near, send chat and chatcommand though
15:55 paramat the solution is the flavour PR, server chooses which functions to disable
15:55 benrob0329 paramat: this doesn't know the pos of nodes
15:55 benrob0329 Only weather it was used more than another in a mapblock
15:55 paramat yeah i see most as harmless but server admin should consider
15:55 octacian paramat: Would it be possible to send some sort of biome information to the client in order to support ambience without actually touching direct coordinates?
15:56 benrob0329 Biom alone wont do it though
15:56 benrob0329 Steampunk building in a Forrest? Sorry, you get creepy music at night
15:57 paramat yes i can add get heat/humidity/biome at pos, and plan to do so
15:57 tenplus1 ambience lite works by getting a block a set radius around player and compares how many of specific nodes it finds...
15:57 octacian paramat: That'd be great. Then CSM ambience could be implemented without find_nodes_near or something
15:57 tenplus1 then it selects sound according to wht it things biome is
15:58 lisac joined #minetest-hub
15:58 benrob0329 tenplus1, octacian: <@benrob0329> Steampunk building in a Forrest? Sorry, you get creepy music at night
15:59 tenplus1 if it were possible to minetest.get_node_totals(pos1, pos2, {nodes}) which would return  list["default:dirt"] = 3  or something...
15:59 tenplus1 instead of positions... this would greatly increase speed
15:59 benrob0329 <@benrob0329> What if we had a get_node_types sited in most used to least per mapblock
16:00 octacian tenplus1: But if implemented in CSM it'd be just as bad as get_node_near. Or are you saying server side?
16:00 tenplus1 server side
16:00 lisac joined #minetest-hub
16:00 tenplus1 wb lisac
16:02 tenplus1 minetest.find_node_in_area_under_air is handy but limiting... why not minetest.find_node_in_area_under(pos1, pos2, nodes, under_node_list)
16:03 benrob0329 Or just minetest.get_used_nodes ?
16:04 benrob0329 Which would search current mapblock
16:04 benrob0329 And send a table back to client
16:06 benrob0329 The most that could be done with that is "oh hey there is gold sonehwere in the 16 block radius around you"
16:06 benrob0329 And that would actually be reduced by increasing the area
16:08 tenplus1 am surprised a metal detector wasnt made in csm that pinged form the closest metal ore... letting players follow the sound
16:09 KaadmY That would actually be useful
16:09 KaadmY And not too cheaty
16:09 tenplus1 closer you are the louder the ping etc
16:15 benrob0329 tenplus1, KaadmY: is my idea non-cheaty enough to warrant an issue?
16:15 KaadmY Which idea?
16:16 tenplus1 sadly players could still edit the csm mod code and change it to cheat still
16:16 benrob0329 tenplus1: no
16:16 benrob0329 Calculation is done server side
16:16 DS-minetest it's done: https://github.com/DS-Minetest/oredetect/com​mit/19030ee778599216e2123cfb3c2a892812687dec note: commit message is camouflage
16:16 KaadmY Maybe you have a minimum area of 8x8x8 or so?
16:17 benrob0329 KaadmY: a smaller area would make it more cheatsy
16:17 benrob0329 that's the beauty of the idea
16:17 benrob0329 A larger area makes it harder to find specific nodes
16:17 KaadmY Yep
16:19 benrob0329 Is it get_node or get_nodes?
16:20 tenplus1 get_node
16:21 DS-minetest oh god, i'm writing so much crap >_<
16:21 tenplus1 lol
16:22 DS-minetest https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.ph​p?f=53&amp;t=17046&amp;p=282514#p282514
16:22 octacian DS-minetest: Just remove the freaking mod from GitHub and the forums
16:22 octacian That's literally the best solution
16:22 octacian That way no new cheaters can get it
16:23 DS-minetest lets see if it works
16:23 octacian >_<
16:24 Krock *forks*
16:24 octacian Krock: Seriously...
16:25 Krock <insert trollface and your advertisement text here>
16:25 tenplus1 *spoons*
16:26 KaadmY Oh right
16:26 paramat joined #minetest-hub
16:26 KaadmY If I add a new shader I have to actually use it
16:26 benrob0329 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6111
16:28 DS-minetest if it finds the node near, it goes with the pos to right, up, down, … and searches there with a lower range and repeats this until the range is 1, when it instead uses get_node
16:29 DS-minetest still works
16:29 octacian Damnit DS! Just remove the freaking mod!
16:29 DS-minetest octacian: chill down, it doesn't work anymore
16:29 benrob0329 ^^^
16:29 octacian Seriously, why won't you just remove the mod?
16:29 benrob0329 ^
16:29 octacian All people have to do is download a version before that commit
16:29 DS-minetest because like this we can see what players use it
16:30 benrob0329 or delete all previos commits
16:30 benrob0329 at least
16:30 octacian omg >_<
16:30 benrob0329 *previous
16:30 octacian It doesn't matter who uses it if no-one that didn't already have it can get it anymore
16:31 DS-minetest but the people who can do that can also do other stuff, like writing their owen ore detecting mod and co.
16:31 octacian Seriously, most people that already have it aren't gonna update anyways
16:31 red-001 wow
16:31 octacian DS-minetest: Yeah, but you don't have to make it super-easy, do you?
16:31 red-001 that's evil
16:31 red-001 wait
16:31 DS-minetest i wrote a forum post to make them upgrade
16:31 red-001 don't tell me what the message is
16:31 DS-minetest red-001: lol X3
16:31 red-001 I want to decode it without running it
16:31 tenplus1 hi red
16:32 octacian Seriously, just delete the freaking mod.
16:32 octacian No-one with half a brain is gonna update with a message like that
16:32 benrob0329 ^^^
16:32 octacian OK, I've probably underestimated some windows users, but...
16:32 KaadmY Well any Windows users won't know how to update a Git repo anyway
16:33 DS-minetest let's see it as experiment
16:33 benrob0329 octacian: LOL, this is true
16:33 * octacian is going to go twice-crazy
16:34 DS-minetest if no change is recognized in the next 1.5 weeks, ill remove it from github if i dont forget it
16:34 paramat tenplus1 Shara see https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=53&amp;t=17692 a possible CSM cheat mod
16:34 red-001 detecting ores is like eating yellow snow
16:34 red-001 right?
16:34 octacian yup
16:34 red-001 yeah
16:34 red-001 get a better message
16:34 DS-minetest red-001: yes :D , only with another colo9r
16:34 octacian JUST DELETE THE FREAKING REPOSITORY :rofl:
16:34 benrob0329 paramat: but you can already see what's in the chest...
16:34 benrob0329 without a mod
16:35 DS-minetest detecting ores is like eating yellow snow
16:35 benrob0329 or was that changed?
16:35 red-001 love the way you pass a variable that you don't use
16:35 red-001 poor j
16:35 red-001 forgotten by the dev
16:35 DS-minetest huh
16:35 KaadmY Nah
16:35 KaadmY JK
16:35 KaadmY It has a partner, K
16:35 tenplus1 protector chest was already fixed for this mod... and yes it's cheating... stealing items is bad
16:36 KaadmY Ah
16:36 KaadmY That's why
16:36 KaadmY https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_J
16:36 red-001 MIB?
16:36 DS-minetest red-001: that wasn't even intended >_<
16:36 benrob0329 tenplus1: looking at items is not the same at stealing
16:36 KaadmY Yep
16:36 benrob0329 you can already look at items in locked chests afaik
16:37 tenplus1 "By creating this mod, I discovered that all of these mods -- except for the default locked chest -- were vulnerable to an issue where inventory could be stolen!"
16:37 benrob0329 ohh
16:37 benrob0329 i didnt read enough -_-
16:37 benrob0329 wait
16:37 benrob0329 wut
16:37 paramat ? i thought you could not look in a locked chest?
16:37 red-001 welcome to #fix_your_code
16:37 KaadmY Is that the hidden_meta thing?
16:38 red-001 press 1 to get more bad code
16:38 red-001 press 2 to get hired by a triple A dev to work on user sign-in code
16:38 benrob0329 red-001: user sign in code is scary
16:39 red-001 press 3 to contact custom support and learn how to make it easier to inject code into your databases
16:39 paramat what about https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=53&amp;t=17695 ? what if a server chooses to hide player tags?
16:39 red-001 press 4 to embedded Lua into your servers, allow users to change it and only allow bytecode
16:40 red-001 paramat, /status
16:40 benrob0329 anyone else find it annoying that you have to look up what the keycommand to do something in FF is, rather than putting it in the popup info bubble
16:40 red-001 and the serverlsit
16:40 red-001 list*
16:41 red-001 it's impossible to successfully hide users without modding the engine
16:41 KaadmY Can CSMs add HUD and formsped elements?
16:41 red-001 CSM can't into HUD's
16:41 octacian KaadmY: Not yet
16:41 octacian Wait, /me misread
16:41 KaadmY How does that mod work then?
16:41 benrob0329 ...isnt that one of the points of XSM?
16:41 red-001 but it can into space
16:41 octacian KaadmY: They can add formspecs, but no HUD API yet
16:42 benrob0329 *CSM
16:42 KaadmY Ah
16:42 octacian red-001 has a PR for HUDs though, I think
16:42 DS-minetest btw, detecting ores is like eating yellow snow makes sense: first you think, that it would be really nice to do it but at doing it you recognize, that it isn't that great
16:42 red-001 #6067
16:42 red-001 werid
16:42 red-001 I never wanted to eat yellow snow
16:43 DS-minetest and it's purple because that is the official color for dangerous things
16:43 octacian DS-minetest: OMG.... Why can't you just delete the mod from GitHub? Seriously? WHYYYY?
16:43 tenplus1 where do I put csm mods, in CSM folder ?
16:43 octacian tenplus1: clientmods/
16:43 octacian ~/.minetest/clientmods
16:43 tenplus1 thanks, testing something
16:43 octacian On Linux anyways.
16:43 octacian You have to enable the mods in a configuration file though, as well as CSM itself in advanced settings
16:43 paramat https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=53&amp;t=17827 this should be removed from the forum
16:44 DS-minetest somehow true.
16:44 octacian and oredetect
16:44 DS-minetest no
16:44 * KaadmY sighs
16:44 KaadmY Seriously...
16:44 * octacian wonders how DS makes so many disruptive CSMs
16:44 DS-minetest let me do the experiment
16:44 tenplus1 is it automatically enabled inside that folder ?
16:44 KaadmY tenplus1: see above, needs to be enabled as well as CSM
16:44 red-001 tenplus1, no
16:44 KaadmY Not sure how though
16:45 red-001 you need to enable it in mods.conf
16:45 octacian tenplus1: Add  a mods.conf to the clientmods folder. formatted like so: "load_mod_preview = false"
16:45 octacian Also, enable client side modding in advanced settings
16:45 red-001 also you need to enable CSM itself
16:45 octacian ninja'd red-001 :P
16:45 octacian DS-minetest: Well, would you at least consider removing hi? Cause that one is plain annoying
16:46 red-001 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
16:46 octacian AND oredetect. Please. UGH.
16:46 DS-minetest >* octacian wonders how DS makes so many disruptive CSMs
16:46 DS-minetest only two of… how many? and one of them wasn't event meant to be bad for server, it was just made to imitate 11
16:46 red-001 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9joFhlD_MFk
16:46 KaadmY Shall I make disruptive CSMs too?
16:46 DS-minetest i'll remove hi
16:46 octacian thx. At least. And from GitHub.
16:46 tenplus1 so having the line "load_mod_chest_inspector = true" in mods.conf shoudl suffice ?
16:46 octacian yes.
16:47 octacian No.
16:47 octacian "load_mod_csm_chest_inspector = true"
16:47 octacian :P
16:47 KaadmY red-001: relevant video :D
16:47 octacian It's best to just load a world once with CSM enabled, it'll fill out the mods.conf with everything set to false, then you can update the ones you want
16:47 IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
16:47 octacian I wish people would actually make more useful CSMs.
16:47 octacian Like who, or my unreleased and currently bugged savepos
16:48 paramat red-001 how does 'who plus' check that the user has permissions to kick or ban? just wondering
16:48 red-001 it doesn't bother to yet
16:48 red-001 just sends the command
16:48 paramat wut
16:48 octacian paramat: It doesn't. It runs the chatcommand which fails if they don't have the permission :P
16:48 paramat oh
16:48 red-001 lets the server do the normal chat command checks
16:48 paramat i see
16:48 IhrFussel My MT 0.4.16-dev (Jun 6) client crashes when I try to change the volume via the pause menu ... addr2line says "GUIVolumeChange::OnEvent(irr::SEvent const&) bei ??:?"
16:48 octacian Same way my savepos works with teleporting
16:49 paramat ok, surely it's still disruptive to show a list of players on a server which chooses to hide player tags?
16:49 octacian Well, I'm gonna quit answering other people's questions and go work on the main menu :D
16:49 octacian paramat: /status
16:49 tenplus1 I dont know if it's enabled and running
16:49 KaadmY Ditto
16:49 red-001 paramat, see auto complete, /status, serverlist
16:49 paramat status shows all names?
16:49 octacian There's no way you can make me believe that a simple player-list could be disruptive :P
16:49 octacian Yes
16:50 paramat ok good
16:50 DS-minetest somehow sad, hi is dead
16:50 * tenplus1 really does not like csm
16:50 octacian DS-minetest: That is not sad at all! :D Time to celebrate :P
16:50 octacian tenplus1: I don't blame you, considering the trouble it has caused in some areas...
16:50 * octacian has actually gone to work on the main menu now
16:50 tenplus1 I'd be quite happy for it to be removed and attention put elsewhere in game
16:50 octacian Nope, another notification :rofl:
16:50 DS-minetest tenplus1: you are alone again
16:51 * red-001 gets fireworks
16:51 octacian tenplus1: I still wouldn't want to see it removed. How much MT could benefit from it. Even if it was only server-injected
16:52 paramat what if a server chose to have player names hidden?
16:52 KaadmY Well honestly, right now CSM is dumb
16:52 red-001 then fix the server
16:52 KaadmY You can't do anything useful with it
16:52 octacian paramat: But we have /status and the serverlist
16:52 red-001 since it's shitty at keeping names hidden
16:52 paramat yeah i know
16:52 KaadmY And the API barely works and wasn't thought through at all
16:53 octacian Honestly, there's nothing wrong with a simple playerlist
16:53 paramat sorry i'm replying to "There's no way you can make me believe that a simple player-list could be disruptive"
16:53 octacian KaadmY: That's because it hasn't had time to develop due to all the disruptive stuff :P
16:53 octacian Oh, you're way behind :P
16:55 red-001 seems like https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3856 will never be finished
16:56 IhrFussel PLEASE is there a way to set the ingame volume in the conf? I can't change it ingame the game crashes on me WHENEVER I touch the volume slider
16:56 paramat is hiding player tags possible? i thought there was a distance setting? maybe not
16:56 DS-minetest well, i know a mod which does something like that
16:56 tenplus1 my invisibility potion does just that paramat
16:57 tenplus1 https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=14846
16:57 KaadmY IhrFussel: um
16:57 KaadmY sound_volume or something?
16:58 IhrFussel Yes okay I found it thanks ... not sure why the crashes happen though
16:58 DS-minetest still haven't suggested any other recipe X3
16:59 KaadmY Ah, nametag API?
16:59 paramat IhrFussel , then the issue is the in-game crash, that's not a reason to add it to .conf
16:59 KaadmY Sets the text to an empty string?
16:59 KaadmY '
17:00 benrob0329 Does Minetest have proper man pages?
17:00 paramat please add an issue
17:00 IhrFussel paramat, I wanted a way to set my volume somehow as I need sound while playing...I'll investigate the crashes further though
17:01 KaadmY IhrFussel: since it seems like a GUI bug, you could try `/set -n sound_volume <x>` in singleplayer
17:02 red-001 IhrFussel, what is it set to in minetest.conf?
17:04 IhrFussel It was 0.16 before now it's 0.35 ... if you want to test the behavior first set the volume to 0.35 and leave the menu, then set it to 0.16 and restart the game then try to move the slider up or down and it might crash after a few secs
17:04 IhrFussel It doesn't crash right away
17:05 KaadmY Doesn't crash here
17:05 benrob0329 OpenAL bug?
17:06 KaadmY benrob0329: that looks like a GUI bug
17:06 IhrFussel I'll try to change it now again after I set the volume manually via conf
17:07 IhrFussel WTF? It crashed now WITHOUT even touching the slider
17:08 IhrFussel I'll try to restart the PC one sec
17:11 paramat tenplus1 Shara shivajiva VanessaE and server admin, i feel you have the right to ask for a CSM mod to be removed from the forum if it could disrupt your server, since restrictions will only be enforcable in MT 0.5. so please consider these and comment https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=53&amp;t=17692 https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=53&amp;t=17046
17:12 tenplus1 the chest inspector itself is a bad one... it means anyone can open any chest and remove it's contents... this is why I dont want csm
17:13 IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
17:13 paramat it's not the removal, just seeing the contents is bad enough
17:13 IhrFussel Nope, still happens right when I try to click the slider everything crashes
17:16 benrob0329 tenplus1: csm needs to be cracked down upon
17:16 tenplus1 I want a way to disable completely from server
17:16 benrob0329 I don't think that is the best option either
17:16 benrob0329 Chat Coloring is a good example of a client mod
17:16 IhrFussel Muting/unmuting works without crash it is DEFINITELY just the GUI that causes it
17:17 benrob0329 And ambiance
17:17 tenplus1 am going to have to convert any metadata to private metadata which means all mods will be 0.4.16+ only... which is sad cause I like having them compatible with older versions of mt
17:17 benrob0329 And many, many other non destructive client mods
17:17 benrob0329 The problem is that (as with a lot of technology) it was released too soon
17:18 tenplus1 yes, definitely... without proper checks and switches to turn them off
17:18 benrob0329 It wasn't ready, it needed to have there's things fixed first
17:18 benrob0329 *these
17:18 paramat tenplus1 please can you add your request to the flavours PR then?
17:19 benrob0329 I don't think turning csm off completely is a good option, but it needs to be restricted
17:19 tenplus1 havent I done that already paramat..
17:20 paramat oh yeah
17:21 benrob0329 Id much rather have csm for things like Chat6 and Ambiance, and not for things like hi and ore detector
17:21 IhrFussel @hiding nametags: Change the nametag alpha is what I do for the /hide command on my server
17:21 tenplus1 same
17:21 benrob0329 Also, nametags should be hidden with sneak
17:22 benrob0329 Imo
17:22 tenplus1 could easily be done inside player.lua file
17:22 tenplus1 another reason to place player stuff in it's own mod :D
17:22 paramat chat colouring is, or was, destructive, it seriously irritated a server owner
17:22 benrob0329 paramat: client side coloring of messages?
17:23 benrob0329 That doesn't affect the server..
17:23 paramat sorry, i meant colours sent to server
17:23 benrob0329 That should be configurable, yes
17:24 IhrFussel There is a conf setting for that AFAIK
17:25 tumeninodes joined #minetest-hub
17:25 tenplus1 hi tumeninodes
17:25 benrob0329 Hi tumeninodes
17:25 octacian Well, did I miss anything? xD
17:25 tumeninodes hi tenplus1, benrob0329, johnboy
17:26 Raven262 Hello tumeninodes
17:26 octacian benrob0329: Chat6?
17:26 tumeninodes hi Raven262
17:26 tumeninodes hi octacian
17:26 benrob0329 octacian: cheapie's mod
17:26 octacian benrob0329: I wrote a mod to hide nametags with sneak on my subgame
17:26 octacian benrob0329: What's it do? Anything my chat3 doesn't? xD
17:26 benrob0329 Adds color to messages client side
17:27 octacian Ah, it's a CSM
17:27 benrob0329 Really handy for servers
17:27 octacian Mine is SSM
17:27 octacian Was gonna port chat3 to CSM, but I suppose I don't need to now :D
17:27 benrob0329 Especially if there are multiple convos at once
17:28 octacian What do you mean?
17:28 tumeninodes Whenever I see screenshots of ingame chat, I always wonder how people can follow it so fast with one color
17:28 IhrFussel Or if the server uses certain colors to indicate events..on mine join messages are green, leave messages are red and PMs are purple
17:28 benrob0329 tumeninodes: it fixes tbat
17:29 benrob0329 IhrFussel: most servers don't do that
17:29 tumeninodes benrob0329, that will be nice
17:29 octacian My chat3 simply highlights any messages you were mentioned in with green, PMs green as well. Also has a per-player configurable chatbell
17:29 Hijiri tenplus1: I think it's a moot point whether CSM allows taking stuff from chests
17:29 IhrFussel benrob0329, my server does count as 1 though so the point is valid
17:29 Hijiri Chest permission should be all handled on the server anyway
17:29 octacian <paramat> chat colouring is, or was, destructive, it seriously irritated a server owner
17:29 benrob0329 octacian: this is where a client mod shine though
17:30 Hijiri Minetest already gives inventory callbacks to do exactly that
17:30 octacian Gotta agree there. BTW, wasn't it fixed so that colours weren't logged? I had to override minetest.log in latest dev and call strip colours.
17:30 octacian benrob0329: Yeah, it is.
17:30 benrob0329 IhrFussel: then the mod is useless on your server, although od prefer to have it client side
17:30 * octacian is gonna have to release hiding nametags on shift as an actual mod
17:31 octacian Or, maybe a MTG PR
17:31 KaadmY octacian: I already did that in Pixture
17:31 KaadmY Except it just fades the nametag alpha
17:31 octacian KaadmY: When exactly?
17:31 KaadmY Right after 0.4.15 was released... :P
17:31 octacian I found that fading didn't work very well.
17:31 KaadmY Or 0.4.13?
17:31 IhrFussel benrob0329, it makes totally sense to have join and leave message in different colors...makes it WAYYY easier to know which messages are regular ones and which aren't
17:31 tumeninodes CSM for ambiance I like too. Though I think all background music should be Rammstein and The Prodigy :D
17:31 KaadmY Yeah fading doesn't fade the shadow
17:32 octacian Damnit. You beat me to it :P Eden didn't even exist then
17:32 KaadmY I remember it was less than a month after nametag properties was added
17:32 KaadmY Was that 0.4.13 or 0.4.15?
17:33 octacian I dunno. I've only been around since 0.4.13, and wasn't very aware of the API then :P
17:33 benrob0329 IhrFussel: yes, but having chat coloring be a client mod (even if sent by server) makes sense
17:34 tumeninodes definitely easier to keep track of
17:34 IhrFussel If the colors the mod offers conflict with the server ones that indicate important events..NO they don't
17:35 tumeninodes Is there a way to make it so that Server colors can be reserved? on the client side?
17:35 IhrFussel There shouldn't be IMO
17:36 IhrFussel It is the sole decision of the server admin to add those colors to messages if he/she thinks it's essential for the server gameplay
17:36 tumeninodes Specific colors used by the server, would take priority, and shift avail colors for client side
17:38 benrob0329 Or we could just have server sent client mods
17:39 tumeninodes Grrr, doorbell. BRB
17:39 benrob0329 Then there would be chat coloring, and if the user has their own mod that overrides default coloring (eg if they don't like the colors that the server set) then it will get overridden
17:40 benrob0329 And don't tell me that your specific colors affect gameplay moreso than any other color scheme, because what if I want consistent colors across servers or am colorblind and can only see certain colors?
17:41 IhrFussel I honestly wouldn't care if there was an option to switch the colors as long as the client still sees unique colored messages for those events
17:41 IhrFussel Also interesting crash: My server crashed 3 hours ago with "2017-07-09 16:29:28: ERROR[Server]: Failed to open path/to/world/players/NiklasHD"
17:43 IhrFussel Or at least that's the last entry before the crash, there is no actual error stack
17:43 benrob0329 IhrFussel: then csm overriding colors isnt a problem, is it?
17:47 paramat celeron55 and all, amazing screenshots of the fractal mapgen on this page https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopi​c.php?f=3&amp;t=156&amp;start=5850
17:48 tenplus1 seen those, very interesting :D
17:48 octacian Woaaahhh!
17:48 KaadmY Woaaaaaaaaaaaaat
17:48 KaadmY Oh lol
17:48 KaadmY octacian: you ninja'd me :(
17:49 octacian :P
17:49 IhrFussel benrob0329, as long as the client mod cannot use the exact same colors compared to the server events...I wouldn't mind
17:50 IhrFussel I mean as long as the server events have a unique color I'm fine with it
17:50 benrob0329 ...isnt that the point of coloring the chat?
17:50 KaadmY Woaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah https://imgoat.com/uploads/4173cb38f0/29237.png
17:51 tenplus1 niiiiiice
17:51 IhrFussel My point is: Join messages are GREEN on my server...now if a client uses the same GREEN for regular messages it may confuse players...don't you see how that's possible?
17:51 benrob0329 The Fantasticness of Fractal
17:51 paramat yes that's good too, very high quality screenshots
17:51 octacian The way modmgr handles displaying mods is waayyyyyy overcomplex... The modlist goes through literally three (or four) processing stages before being shown in the formspec
17:51 benrob0329 Anyone else feeling it?
17:52 tenplus1 can you simplify it octacian ?
17:52 KaadmY Is there something special you have to do to get textures working with shaders?
17:52 octacian Working on it. I've rewritten nearly the entire modmgr to support stuff like clientmods and more
17:52 benrob0329 IhrFussel: the client mod would override those colors too
17:52 benrob0329 Otherwise it would be defective
17:53 IhrFussel No then I'm against it...I said server owners should DECIDE what clientas see in the chat
17:53 benrob0329 And I said that colors should be something user configurable
17:53 IhrFussel clients*
17:53 octacian I honestly have no problem with clients deciding what they see in chat, but I don't like CSMs and the like being able to send chat messages :/
17:54 IhrFussel No they shouldn't...did you NEVER play an online game with certain colors for certain events?
17:54 benrob0329 Because I don't necessarily like your color scheme
17:54 IhrFussel Then you can leave my server
17:54 tenplus1 custom colours for   <name> <message>    and highlighting your own <name>
17:54 octacian I've gotta agree with benrob0329. The client should have control over what they see in their particular client.
17:54 IhrFussel If a color scheme bothers you THAT much
17:54 octacian When it comes to chat that is.
17:54 tenplus1 and of course join/leave messages
17:54 benrob0329 Just like I don't necessarilu like your texture pack
17:55 benrob0329 Should you force your textures on me?
17:55 tumeninodes paramat: saw those, pretty awesome
17:56 IhrFussel That's something else..the texture pack isn't essential for the gameplay..but my server displays the RANK in the chat message and it displays the CHAT CHANNEL the player is in...it would be absolutely fatal to make that client side
17:56 IhrFussel Some things in an online game SHOULD be forced on players
17:57 octacian Now for that one, I've gotta agree with IhrFussel :P
17:57 KaadmY ^
17:57 benrob0329 Yeah, but what about other circumstances?
17:57 KaadmY Model shading kinda works
17:58 KaadmY But it's model-local and textures aren't working
17:59 IhrFussel benrob0329, are you seriously telling me that you wouldn't play game X because the party chat messages are FORCED to be yellow on you? And the clan chat is forced to be green and the PM channel is forced to be purple..because that is how MOST online games with a chat work
17:59 tumeninodes server chat colors related to specific events and rank should take precedence. The client side could search for those variables before offering colors to choose from on the client side
18:00 tumeninodes if you look at chat coloring as sort of part of the server rules, it makes sense
18:01 IhrFussel Many server owners recently told me literally "IT IS MY SERVER I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT" so I wonder why you don't agree there too
18:01 benrob0329 IhrFussel: depends on the colors
18:02 benrob0329 Neon pink and green would drive me up the wall
18:02 benrob0329 We need a way for servers to define types of messages, with default colors
18:02 tumeninodes although, on the other hand..., maybe the end user is able to identify different colors better, relating to specific events.
18:02 IhrFussel But if you enjoy the gameplay the colors shouldn't really matter...and if they annoy you THAT much you can disable the chat
18:03 benrob0329 IhrFussel: disabling chat is not an option in most circumstances
18:04 benrob0329 If I want clans to be blue, they should be blue. But they should still be a different color
18:06 benrob0329 If I want join/leave messages to be a faded grey so that i don't notice them (or if i do want to notice them as a mod) then I should be able to do that
18:06 IhrFussel benrob0329, I would be fine with a way to set a different color for thoise events if you really despise the original ones but that would be very tricky cause the CSM mod would have to check if the color you set for event X is not already used by event Y or Z
18:07 benrob0329 IhrFussel: thus my suggestion for different message types
18:07 KaadmY Easy solution: try to get a standard list of colors and uses for them
18:07 benrob0329 The user can select different colors for each one defined by the server
18:08 KaadmY Or do it like terminal escape codes
18:08 KaadmY Use ^1 for default red, ^2 for default green, etc
18:08 KaadmY And the client can configure those colors
18:09 Taya joined #minetest-hub
18:09 tenplus1 hi Taya
18:09 Taya Hello :P
18:09 KaadmY Yo
18:11 tumeninodes tenplus1: I have a desert cobble rework. same texture, just slightly toning down the pink mortar :P A compromise rework
18:11 IhrFussel KaadmY, could you give an example with those escape colors? Like what would the modder type in minetest.chat_send_all()? Or would it be a completely new function?
18:12 KaadmY minetest.color_code?
18:13 KaadmY Eg. `"*** " .. name .. minetest.color_index("red") .. " has joined"`
18:14 KaadmY And the client can change red to green if they want
18:15 IhrFussel Couldn't the client just read minetest.colorize()? If the server started to send it to the client
18:15 tumeninodes tenplus1: https://ibb.co/gB2Ahv
18:16 KaadmY But minetest.colorize is an arbitrary color, therefore the modder very likely intentionally used that specific color
18:16 KaadmY Whereas using an indexed color implies that it just has to be a unique color
18:17 tenplus1 nothing appears ?
18:17 IhrFussel KaadmY, ohh I see...you mean the function would allow the client to only change those colors?
18:17 KaadmY Yes
18:17 tumeninodes please hold
18:19 tumeninodes https://ibb.co/album/hR3nov
18:20 tumeninodes not sure why the other link did not work. The tile is very small, under the "ibb" text, top center on the first link
18:20 tenplus1 looks not too bad...
18:20 tenplus1 you adding to pull ?
18:21 tumeninodes I wanted to see what you thought first, as I know you and others are concerned about too much change.
18:25 tenplus1 it's not too drastic :) but still looks nice and similar to original
18:26 IhrFussel KaadmY, sounds like a pretty difficult task...I mean it would have to work for ANY server and it would have to respect all event messages
18:26 tumeninodes and it tones down the pink :P
18:27 tumeninodes everyone can laugh at the old dude..., how do you add an image to a message on github?
18:28 tenplus1 add to pull request with original next to it :)
18:28 tenplus1 drag n drop
18:29 tumeninodes :D okie dokie thanks
18:33 KaadmY YASSSSSSSSSS directional model shading works
18:33 tenplus1 ooh, you posting a video to show ?
18:34 KaadmY Can't record videos :(
18:34 KaadmY At decent quality at least
18:34 tenplus1 screenys :PPP
18:34 KaadmY The best I can do is around 320p
18:34 KaadmY It's borked right now :P
18:35 KaadmY But gimme a few minutes, should be fixed
18:37 octacian Is there a really major speed difference between using table.concat a custom concatenation function?
18:37 octacian *custom concatenation loop
18:37 KaadmY octacian: for what?
18:38 octacian See, currently my modmgr rewrite takes a path and returns a list containing both modpack items and the parent modpack. This means that once sorted, the table display messes up (the old one returned only the parent modpack and then get mods was once again called while displaying)
18:38 octacian And NVM.
18:39 octacian I'm just going to add a mods table to a parent modpack entry and place submods there
18:39 octacian Otherwise, I have two loops to display the mods. One to sort them out into tables, and another to concatenate the tables
18:39 octacian Which honestly would most likely also be just fine
18:39 octacian ...and on second thought, probably more efficient than the other method which I just mentioned
18:40 octacian hmm, Gonna have to mess around with this. Consider how Lua tables work, adding modpack items to a subtable could still work
18:41 octacian It's not like I really need to worry about performance. Aside from the fact that the impact is so small, the old modmgr looped through the entire modlist 3-4 times before displaying it in a formspec
18:43 octacian Wait, you can't have modpacks inside modpacks, can you?
18:47 octacian Shoot. Seems you can.
18:47 octacian This is going to make life more interesting.
18:48 octacian huh. So it's possible, but even the old modmgr didn't account for it
18:49 KaadmY Shh, ignore it
18:52 tenplus1 lol
18:53 octacian OK, which is preferable: A table of mods and modpacks, where submods of modpacks are stored in a mods subtable of the parent modpack subtable; or a table of all mods, submods, and modpacks where submods have a reference to the parent modpack's name?
18:54 octacian Turns out that the code for either is practically equally as complex, so it mostly comes down to preference.
18:54 tumeninodes tenplus1: ok, added to the PR. Feels so sleazy adding it to someone else's PR though : /
18:54 octacian (either way I end up with 2 loops)
18:54 octacian So, anyone got some thoughts?
18:54 tumeninodes why do I have fruit loops on my mind now? Dammit octacian :P
18:55 octacian lol
18:55 tenplus1 not at all... ideas are always welcome in puills
18:56 tumeninodes ok but, if hordes start comin at me... I'm pointing at you : ) (just so ya know)
18:57 tenplus1 ehehe
18:57 tumeninodes and I will be braving a couple servers later this eve for the first time... Xanadu will be one (have to get my Rush albums ready first)
18:57 tenplus1 rush is good
18:58 tumeninodes have seen them many times live
18:58 tenplus1 what was the album with the whimsy and tech mind on the cover ?!?!
18:59 octacian OK, I'm going for all items being top level with a parent reference
18:59 octacian Although...
18:59 octacian ugh
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19:01 octacian Yup, looks like I have to otherwise the selected reference gets messed up :/
19:01 octacian Or does it...
19:01 * octacian is confused
19:02 octacian Yes, it does
19:02 octacian OK, straightened out :D
19:02 Taya left #minetest-hub
19:04 KaadmY Guh, going to need help with these shaders
19:04 KaadmY Can't get them to work right
19:04 KaadmY Since it appears Minetest passes data into the shader that isn't relative to anything
19:04 tumeninodes sorry tenplus1, had to step away. I am not hardcore fan, just a fan. So I do not know all their album covers. Same goes for even my fav band Deep Purple
19:05 tenplus1 :P
19:05 tumeninodes and I never turned down a concert when I was younger : )
19:06 tumeninodes until I wound up in the middle of a mosh pit at 36 years old
19:06 tenplus1 only ever been to "T in the Park"
19:09 tumeninodes : o that looks awesome!
19:10 tenplus1 this was when it was still at Strathclyde park.. was awesome...
19:10 tenplus1 lol
19:10 tumeninodes : (  other countries have such nice places and events
19:12 tumeninodes I have been to concerts in various venues in New England and a couple (2) in Canada, before passpports were needed to go between Canada and US
19:12 Calinou I've never been to a concert
19:12 Calinou too loud
19:12 tumeninodes I have still never gotten to see Rammstein
19:13 tumeninodes Calinou: what?!
19:13 Calinou why would I go to one if it's to become deaf?
19:14 tumeninodes heh i have minor loss in my right ear from my band days.. we were very loud. Not as loud as say KISS, AC/DC or Deep Purple though
19:14 tenplus1 always fun
19:15 tumeninodes my last concert was a few years ago Alice in Chains Black Gives Way to Blue, in Boston in a theater
19:16 tumeninodes those notes when your head vibrates like you're on somethin' :P
19:17 tumeninodes there are also concerts which are not so loud. I have been to see orchestras and even intimate concerts where things are toned down and small audience
19:18 tumeninodes but this is not Minetest speak :P sorry
19:19 tenplus1 :P
19:20 tumeninodes old folk reminisce blindly :D
19:21 tenplus1 nostalgia :D
19:21 tumeninodes I should go fix the model for my angled glass mod...
19:21 tumeninodes oldstalgia
19:22 tumeninodes or No Stalgia
19:23 tumeninodes On creative servers.., do you still need to craft and mine to get materials?
19:24 tenplus1 no, most creative servers give you the creative inventory to take what you need and build straight away... no survival needed
19:25 tumeninodes excellent, cuz I'd die very quickly and don't know how to craft anything haha
19:25 tenplus1 ehehehe
19:25 tumeninodes well, basic stuff
19:25 tenplus1 although Xanadu is a survival server and we can grant 'creative' to mega builders..
19:26 tumeninodes best to have someone prove they are a mega builder first though
19:27 tumeninodes or I can wait for someone else to craft what I need, then kill them :P
19:28 tumeninodes I'll give it a shot later... off to play with Blender ttyl
19:28 tumeninodes left #minetest-hub
19:33 tenplus1 omgggggggggg... cringe worthy video on youtube with idiotic kids
19:34 paramat joined #minetest-hub
19:34 Fixer PART FISH @ PART GIRL
19:35 tenplus1 wb paramat
19:35 tenplus1 hi fixer
19:36 Fixer hi
19:39 tenplus1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8FI9KpUrTA <-- be warned... cringeworthy
19:46 tenplus1 nite folks :P o/
19:47 tenplus1 left #minetest-hub
19:51 shivajiva paramat: I'd like to see both of those csm mods removed, I grow weary of being told security is my problem because I run a server and dev doesn't bother about the security model as much as adding bells and whistles :/
19:59 paramat yeah :]
19:59 Shara paramat: I'll second that
20:00 Shara chest inspector looks to be a complete all out cheat mod
20:00 paramat please add your comments to the mod threads
20:00 Shara paramat: I'm travelling at the moment on a very poor connection, so limited ability to leave comments
20:01 paramat ok no prob
20:01 paramat i'm right in thinking a player cannot look inside another player's locked chest?
20:01 Shara It is quite difficult to view things
20:01 Shara normally you can only look at the contents of chests you can also remove items from, I think
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20:13 octacian I'm honestly not too against chest inspector. It is a neat concept, and assuming that the mods have checks to ensure that you are the owner when moving items it's fine. Is it possible to hide inventory metadata?
20:14 octacian paramat: Using chest inspector it's possible to look inside a locked chest, if I remember correctly
20:14 octacian However, I honestly have no issue with that.
20:14 octacian As long as they can't move items.
20:15 paramat yeah i'm asking the mod creator whether you can look inside a locked chest, but it seems so from the mod description, it only mentions default:chest_locked
20:16 octacian I'm 90% sure you can. Let me check
20:16 paramat looking inside is bad enough
20:16 octacian paramat: Yes, you can.
20:16 lisac paramat, shouldn't that be fixed with private meta?
20:17 octacian However, i believe you can't move items. Pretty sure that the author of that mod submitted a patch to Minetest.
20:17 octacian lisac: I don't think inventories can be private yet
20:17 paramat i can't see the point of the mod if it only allows looking inside an unlocked chest
20:18 paramat (sorry, late reply)
20:18 paramat as in, another player's locked chest?
20:19 octacian Yes. you can look inside a locked or protected chest, however, with the patches that the author of the CSM submitted you cannot take or move items
20:19 paramat yes something might have to be fixed but the mod is still disruptive
20:21 paramat cannot take or move items is irrelevant, looking alone is bad enough :]
20:21 octacian I don't see that it's that bad
20:21 octacian What's wrong with knowing what's in a chest? I mean, you can't take it anyways
20:22 paramat because you would not normally know what's inside, so it's a cheat
20:22 paramat there may be special items inside that you should not know about
20:22 octacian hmmm, True. But seeing as it can't damage anything, I don't see that it is really a cheat
20:23 paramat cheating is damage
20:23 octacian But again.... I would consider the ability to look inside someone's inventory a cheat, so, I suppose that looking in chests would be too
20:27 octacian paramat: You know, I'm not sure that in it's current state get_inventory should have been exposed to CSM at all
20:27 octacian Although, with the original plan (server-injected) it would be very useful
20:28 octacian hmmm, Maybe the best solution is to remove client-side loading of CSMs
20:29 octacian I mean, the only actual good use that I have is something like a client side chat filter, which could honestly be useful
20:29 nerzhul item move is controlled by server
20:29 nerzhul if you permit to move them when not the owner it's a problem in server side mod
20:31 octacian nerzhul: Yes, that's true. However, the inventory probably shouldn't be available to client-loaded mods in the first place
20:31 nerzhul it's not available, only formspec are available
20:31 octacian And you can then show an inventory via formspecs
20:35 Fixer i'm fine with chest inspect too, it is only useful on anarchy survival
20:36 KaadmY I can think of places where chest inspect could be bad for gameplay
20:36 KaadmY In Pixture I have locked chests breakable with lock picks
20:36 KaadmY But they wear out, and have a chance of not working
20:36 KaadmY You can game that and only pick chests that have good stuff in them
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20:38 paramat maybe 'get inventory' should be added to CSM flavours PR?
20:39 paramat sorry i mean the formspec of inventory
20:40 rubenwardy no
20:40 rubenwardy it's better to only send inventories that should be able to access
20:40 rubenwardy *that they
20:40 paramat yes i agree
20:41 KaadmY Also clouds should be shaded correctly
20:41 KaadmY Might try that soon
20:45 paramat i like your time-dependent face shading, but how do you stop it happening indoors?
20:45 KaadmY paramat: it uses sun light
20:45 KaadmY So underground will have almost flat lighting
20:49 shivajiva my primary concern is we move to a security model that doesn't allow clients to bypass the server privs, that goes a long way to ensuring any public server is secure or tell the server owners development has no interest so I can stop hoping we will arrive :)
20:49 kaeza greetings
20:49 * KaadmY greets *
20:49 shivajiva o/
20:50 benrob0329 Hi kaeza
20:50 kaeza hi KaadmY, shivajiva, benrob0329
20:50 paramat shivajiva the restrictions will be enforceable in 0.5 because all clients are forced to update to 0.5 too
20:52 shivajiva so @ 0.5 you will not be able to alter the source and compile a client that can bypass privs?
20:52 CWz wait, 0.5 will fix the fly issue?
20:52 paramat a C++ hacked client will always be able to bypass restrictions
20:53 KaadmY > if (free_move && !client->checkPrivilege("fly")) m_statustext += L" (note: no 'fly' privilege)";
20:53 KaadmY That's literally the fly move code
20:53 KaadmY I can comment one line, and voila
20:53 KaadmY Fly cheat
20:53 KaadmY Not even remotely hard
20:54 paramat what fly issue?
20:54 rubenwardy you need to change the fly check in player(?), that's code above is warning message if you enable fly
20:54 CWz I know MC has a an anti cheat mod that prevents fly hacks and a bunch of other stuff
20:54 KaadmY rubenwardy: same code though
20:54 rubenwardy it is possible to stop fly cheating
20:54 rubenwardy you
20:55 rubenwardy you'd need to do client-side predicion / server-side reconcilliation
20:55 rubenwardy it's difficult though
20:55 KaadmY I'd guess MC does that
20:56 rubenwardy info cheating is very hard to prevent, as the only way to stop it is to not send the info to the client at all - which may cause inconvenience
20:56 CWz minecraft also has a built in one
20:56 CWz that auto kicks players for flying
20:56 rubenwardy there's no need for anti-cheating code
20:57 rubenwardy if you did client-side prediction properly
20:57 rubenwardy well, i guess that counts as anti-cheating code
21:06 KaadmY Also how would you prevent anti-fly?
21:06 KaadmY Or rather, how to detect it?
21:08 Jordach KaadmY, you'd have to stop sending player location packets
21:08 KaadmY Jordach: um
21:08 KaadmY Well almost all other games handle it
21:09 KaadmY g
21:21 rubenwardy KaadmY, client-side predicion / server-side reconcilliation
21:21 KaadmY rubenwardy: that's the right way to go
21:22 KaadmY Probably too late for Minetest though without a lot of refactoring
21:24 shivajiva hope not, don't think ruben would mention something that wasn't possible
21:25 KaadmY Well people mention mod performance a lot
21:31 Fixer can minetest into this
21:31 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/cyLfGQi.png ?
21:44 Jordach as usual no
22:38 Calinou lol, Discord just went RIP
22:38 Calinou also, Minecraft's anti-flight is shoddy at best
22:38 Calinou it allows flying for up to 5 seconds (before Beta 1.5, it was unlimited)
22:39 Calinou you can still do plenty of things in 5 seconds, even at normal (or slightly above normal )speed
22:39 Fixer Jordach: T O W N Y 0_7_5 from 2 0 1 1
22:39 Calinou (I believe it doesn't check vertical speed at all)
22:39 Calinou ...although NoCheatPlus is much more strict about flight checks
22:39 Fixer Calinou: discord - rip? nice
22:39 Fixer BUSTED
22:39 Calinou the servers are like, entirely dowxn
22:39 Calinou down*
22:39 Fixer or WASTED
22:40 Calinou restarting the client shows an endless connection screen
22:40 Calinou "Connection problems? Tell us!" says the client
22:40 Calinou I imagine their Twitter right now...
22:40 Calinou "ayy discord doesnt work how do i meme now, pls rt and plz reply to my tweet"
22:40 Fixer here you go, eat your closed source proprieatary ----
22:40 Fixer will they ever learn to use one and open standard of some kind?
22:41 Fixer tired of this BS
22:41 lisac I just noticed Discord is down
22:41 Calinou yep, welcome back to IRC
22:41 Calinou Fixer: it's a problem of centralization here :P
22:41 lisac Heh no Kronos WoW on IRC
22:41 Jordach Calinou, it's actually the first time i've seen it die like this
22:41 red-001 ah discord broke
22:42 Fixer also, decentralisation*
22:42 Jordach it's been a while since discord fell over properly
22:42 Fixer Die big! (c)
22:42 Jordach usually it's been 75% functional during those times
22:42 Calinou I'm watching underpants with eyes spinning with a fancy animation
22:42 Jordach Calinou, think steam controller
22:42 Calinou yeah, it is the first time I see an extended downtime
22:42 Fixer back to beta
22:42 lisac hey seeing that everyone is here now, any way to check if a node is protected in CSM?
22:43 Jordach no
22:43 Jordach meta is no longer sent to clients
22:43 Jordach since you can raid locked chests with that
22:43 Calinou what if nodes sent their data to other nodes?
22:43 Calinou SO META
22:43 * Calinou hides
22:43 Jordach iirc, that is the case
22:44 lisac huh how come metadata is no longer sent to clients? I thought we had private metadata?
22:44 KaadmY Calinou: Discord's still working for me
22:44 Jordach regional server?
22:44 Jordach me and Calinou are EU area
22:44 KaadmY West coast NA here
22:44 Calinou I'm in France
22:45 Calinou they should buy servers in Antartica probably
22:45 Calinou :D
22:45 Calinou KaadmY: can you force a region?
22:45 KaadmY Calinou: no clue
22:45 lisac No Discord here, Serbia
22:45 lisac ^ that is in Europe
22:45 red-001 maybe the EU servers went down
22:45 red-001 also EU here
22:45 Calinou we are the land of the baguettes and tea
22:45 Calinou and we are No Discord's Land :'(
22:46 * KaadmY basks in a working Discord
22:46 lisac KaadmY can enjoy his Discord, we'll enjoy our advanced measurement systems
22:47 red-001 s/advance/logical
22:47 * KaadmY sits in a corner and cries
22:47 lisac heh
22:47 red-001 tbh Asia might have both right now
22:49 KaadmY Hmm, for a friend's Discord in west coast NA it shows some servers as unavailable
22:50 red-001 huh
22:50 red-001 are discord 'servers' linked to one server farm?
22:51 bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub
22:51 KaadmY red-001: I think they depend on the server  region
22:51 red-001 I always though they were just a nice way to separate communities
22:51 red-001 like subreddits on reddit
22:51 lisac ONE IS BACK
22:51 lisac awesome I can continue ignoring it
22:52 bigfoot547 What?
22:52 bigfoot547 lisac, ^^^^
22:52 lisac bigfoot547, you missed the dark times
22:52 lisac Discord went down
22:52 red-001 huh they tweeted a few seconds ago
22:52 KaadmY No, when you start a server you can select the region
22:52 bigfoot547 C'mon. Discord = stupe
22:53 red-001 lol someone is having a bad day
22:53 KaadmY I lost 2 servers also
22:53 lisac last one back
22:53 KaadmY Quake and Diabotical
22:53 red-001 went from
22:53 kaeza my IM client is better
22:53 red-001 "We're looking into an issue where messages are not sending. "
22:53 red-001 to 'Update - We're investigating why servers are not loading as well. The hamster wheel appears to be loose...
22:53 red-001 '
22:53 kaeza also hail emacs
22:54 paramat joined #minetest-hub
22:54 red-001 next: 'It appears we accidently wiped all our databases'
22:54 Calinou Discord is back
22:54 Calinou we can go back to shitposting there
22:54 red-001 'also we deleted the backup while trying to recover from it'
22:54 Calinou "we deleted your memes, sorry for wasting your hard work"
22:55 lisac Hey anyone wants to hear a joke?
22:55 lisac Here it goes
22:55 bigfoot547 sure
22:55 red-001 'oh and we brought dinosaurs back to live and accidently set off five nukes'
22:55 lisac Two retired businessmen meet on a beach one day
22:56 lisac one starts, 'I'm a retired businessman, my shop burned down, I took the insurance money, and retired. What about you?'
22:56 lisac 'I'm also a retired businessman, similar story. My shop got destroyed in a flood, I took insurance money and retired'
22:56 lisac the first one says, 'Hey, how do you plant a flood?'
22:57 lisac huehuehue
22:58 lisac Alright, I've got an even worse joke
22:58 bigfoot547 Okay, "/ignore lisac"
22:59 lisac sorry :(
22:59 bigfoot547 Feel free to copy-pasta
22:59 lisac no jokes then
22:59 bigfoot547 lol, I'm kidding
22:59 lisac heh it's late anyways
22:59 lisac I should go sleep
22:59 lisac cya tomorrow, comrades
22:59 bigfoot547 Uh oh. Am I that guy?
22:59 bigfoot547 Yep
23:00 bigfoot547 Well, I've killed this channel too
23:00 Jordach lmao
23:00 ircSparky /kick bigfoot547
23:00 ircSparky ;)
23:01 bigfoot547 /msg ChanServ flags #minetest-hub ircSparky -*+b
23:01 bigfoot547 Then /kick ircSparky
23:02 KaadmY Nearly all clients have /kb <name>
23:02 KaadmY That kicks and bans
23:02 bigfoot547 Yes
23:02 bigfoot547 but this also removes him from the access lists
23:24 * Jordach loads render kernels
23:27 * bigfoot547 wonders what Jordach is talking about
23:27 * KaadmY wonders what this channel is doing

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