Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-07-13

| Channels | #minetest-hub index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:36 octacian joined #minetest-hub
00:36 octacian How can I change a node's light level using voxel manipulator
00:44 kaeza octacian, https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L3574 ?
00:46 kaeza it's missing the data parameter, though
00:46 octacian kaeza: OK, now how do I apply that to a specific node?
00:46 octacian I'm trying to make a torch that emits light when wielded xD
00:46 kaeza octacian, the same way you would change the content
00:46 kaeza getting the "index" of the node, then setting that to a value 0-15
00:47 octacian I'll take a look, but I'm not very familiar with the voxel manipulator, which is why I asked
00:49 kaeza octacian, something like this: https://github.com/paramat/moonrealm/blob/11effb98​0afe437298bf75444a1c5b20ad9a9fcb/functions.lua#L21
00:49 octacian Thanks, will take a look
01:10 octacian kaeza: So I tried this (https://gist.github.com/octacian/​1ba93762ec94f9bee7d7d5940a7eb187), however, it's not working. I think I'm not setting the light level right, but not sure
01:10 octacian I know that it's running through to the part where I call vm:set_light_data(14), however, nothing is changing in world
01:11 kaeza octacian, the argument to set_light_data is a table of integers
01:12 kaeza what I meant is you should do data[area:index(...)] = 14, then vm:set_light_data(data)
01:13 kaeza uh, also, the `data` seems to be node data in there
01:13 kaeza you are mixing content and light data there
01:14 kaeza TBH, I don't really think VManip will help in this case anyway
01:15 kaeza versus using `set_node`
01:16 lumidify_ joined #minetest-hub
01:22 octacian kaeza: Using set_node is only an option if the player isn't in a node that is simply set to be not walkable
01:26 octacian kaeza: Tried again, and updated the gist. Would you be willing to take a second look?
01:27 kaeza octacian, looks correct now. does it work?
01:29 octacian kaeza: It still doesn't change in the world, although the logger callback does show the new light level
01:29 kaeza hm
01:29 octacian FYI, that code is running in a globalstep
01:30 octacian Not optimized yet, will after I get the basic thing working
01:30 kaeza could it be the :update_map() call?
01:30 octacian What about it?
01:30 kaeza I don't even have MT on this machine, so cannot test
01:30 octacian Or wait, one sec
01:31 kaeza try removing the call and see what happens
01:31 * kaeza checks docs
01:31 octacian Tried removing it, no difference
01:31 kaeza >Does nothing, kept for compatibility.
01:31 octacian Weird thing is that when I dump the light level in minetest.log, it shows the updated light level of 15, but still nothing in-world
01:33 kaeza >Each value is the bitwise combination of day and night light values (`0` to `15` each) `light = day + (night * 16)`
01:33 octacian Tried vm:write_to_map(false) to prevent lighting from being calculated, but still nothing
01:34 kaeza well, I can't think of anything else
01:36 octacian I tried setting it to a higher value, like 159
01:36 octacian Which seemed to work. However, I'm now seeing that it seems to be very slow
01:37 kaeza maybe it's the globalstep. have you compared it against a plain set_node?
01:38 octacian Yup. plain set_node is much faster
01:38 octacian Maybe I'll have to just go for that method
01:41 kaeza the VoxelArea helpers may be very slow compared to C++. you could try copying the code you need and localize as much as possible
01:41 octacian Wait, your saying the voxelarea helpers are written in Lua?
01:41 kaeza ...yes
01:42 octacian >_< I feel like that is just in general a bad idea xD
01:42 kaeza https://github.com/minetest/minetest/b​lob/master/builtin/game/voxelarea.lua
01:42 octacian Will take a look, thanks
01:45 kaeza all those table lookups will surely kill performance, even in LuaJIT
01:46 kaeza another optimization would be to avoid the whole :write_to_map() thing if the old light value is the same as the new value (e.g. the player didn't move)
01:47 kaeza maybe even use `get_node` to get the old value and skip everything if unchanged
01:48 octacian I'll probably just compare positions
02:27 kaeza FWIW: https://gist.github.com/kaeza/2​79006550e8f61c79e358d96138bbe6e
03:04 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
04:27 ssieb joined #minetest-hub
04:39 DI3HARD139 joined #minetest-hub
04:55 RichardTheTurd joined #minetest-hub
04:59 RichardTheTurd joined #minetest-hub
05:03 DI3HARD139 joined #minetest-hub
05:16 DI3HARD139 joined #minetest-hub
05:18 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
05:21 sc3k joined #minetest-hub
06:10 CWz joined #minetest-hub
08:56 IhrFussel calcul0n, KaadmY: Thanks for the responses =) And yes it sounds HORRIBLY laggy, so it's not really better than what I have right now (unbreakable block above the player's head that follow them)
08:57 IhrFussel unbrekable meselamp node*
08:57 IhrFussel unbreakable**
10:13 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
10:26 tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub
10:26 tenplus1 hi folks
10:50 JordachL joined #minetest-hub
10:50 tenplus1 hi Jordach
11:18 IhrFussel Tree nodes can turn into coal block nodes??
11:18 tenplus1 hi Fussel... how'd you mean ???
11:18 Calinou hi
11:19 tenplus1 hi Cal
11:19 IhrFussel tenplus1, someone told me he built his house with default:tree nodes and one of them suddenly turned into default:coalblock
11:19 tenplus1 sounds like someone replaced it with a coal block :P they dont normally turn into coal blocks
11:20 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
11:20 tenplus1 hi fixer
11:23 IhrFussel tenplus1, nope I checked the pos nobody placed a coalblock there
11:25 tenplus1 weird...  any strange mods running that could do such a thing ?
11:28 IhrFussel tenplus1, I check my charcoal mod but it doesn't have any ABMs ... the weird thing is the log doesn't even mention the default:tree node the player placed there
11:28 IhrFussel Or is that the minetest.rotate() problem?
11:29 IhrFussel I mean the function that rotates the nodes based on look direction...IIRC it prevents the node from being added to the log or something like that
11:32 IhrFussel LOL it was the lightning mod
11:32 tenplus1 heh
11:32 IhrFussel Seems like a lightning bolt hit it
11:33 IhrFussel But I was right: default:tree nodes are not being logged since they use the rotate function
11:33 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
11:33 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
11:33 tenplus1 hi thomas
11:34 Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
11:34 ThomasMonroe hi ten
11:34 NathanS21 joined #minetest-hub
11:35 IhrFussel hey Raven262 =)
11:35 tenplus1 hi nathan
11:35 tenplus1 hi raven
11:35 NathanS21 hi tenplus1
11:36 Raven262 Hello IhrFussel
11:36 Raven262 Hello tenplus1
11:37 Raven262 Lisac's mod seems to be getting popular
11:38 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
11:39 tenplus1 hi nrz
11:40 tenplus1 Mobs Redo API updated (tnt:explode deprecated, tnt:boom now in use and uses tnt's own tnt.boom function or visual effect if not active)
12:04 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
12:04 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
12:04 tenplus1 hi Megaf
12:05 octacian joined #minetest-hub
12:05 IhrFussel You can enable double jump with a modified client?
12:05 tenplus1 wb octacian
12:05 tenplus1 you could add double jump to player.lua file prolly
12:06 IhrFussel But I mean client side
12:06 IhrFussel Someone says he is able to double jump
12:07 tenplus1 wouldnt be surprised...
12:07 Megaf Hi onetyone
12:07 Megaf Hi IhrFussel
12:08 RobbieF joined #minetest-hub
12:10 IhrFussel But double jump would require quite a bit of custom coding I'm guessing right?
12:10 octacian_ joined #minetest-hub
12:10 IhrFussel Hello Megaf =) I mean it's not just some flag you need to modify/ignore
12:13 Shara Hello
12:13 Shara IhrFussel: what do you mean by double jump?
12:13 tenplus1 hi RobbieF .. hi Sha
12:13 tenplus1 hi SHara
12:13 Shara Hi 11
12:15 tenplus1 I recommend to update to latest mobs api as it fixes a few issues previously with mob explosions
12:15 IhrFussel Shara, a player without fly,fast (and also didn't visibly cheat those with his client) took a special challenge on my server that requires you to jump precisely...and he was able to easily finish it...I asked him how he did that and he claimed "double jump"
12:15 Shara maybe it'S the sneak jump to gain extra height?
12:15 IhrFussel He said not sneak jump...wait I'll ask him for more details
12:17 Shara tenplus1: no updating here.. I am on holiday :P
12:17 tenplus1 ooh, you having fun :P
12:17 Shara yup, but having a day out of the sun before I cook
12:18 paramat joined #minetest-hub
12:18 tenplus1 hi paramat
12:18 Shara Hi paramat
12:19 Shara still fussing around with some code though
12:19 IhrFussel False alarm he meant sneak jump but his English is worse than mine :P
12:19 Shara playing about with ideas for stopping oredetect
12:19 Shara Hah, Fussel, your english is quite fine
12:19 paramat btw in new move code there is a new sneak-jump that works (without needing physics override 'sneak glitch') with a certain pattern of nodes, link coming
12:19 tenplus1 ooh
12:20 paramat ugh forum is slow
12:20 Shara trying not to click too many links from here, especially the forum...
12:21 paramat well for later https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=274961#p274961
12:21 paramat and onwards
12:21 Shara paramat: problem is, is it still "only" two nodes max?
12:21 Shara I've honestly reached a point where I just want the option for old move code kept
12:22 paramat not sure didn't test, but it only happens with a particular structure so not a practical sneak jump
12:22 Shara do we know if there is a chance to keep the option yet?
12:22 paramat no problem i want the old move code option kept indefinately
12:23 paramat i made an issue and no-one opposes
12:23 Shara Yup, very much appreciated :)
12:23 IhrFussel tenplus1, Mobs Redo question: I want to disable ALL damage to owned animals ... is it enough to just add AFTER the damage calculation "if self.owner and self.owner ~= hitn then damage = 0 minetest.chat_send_player(hitn,"This animal is owned by another player, you cannot attack it.") end" ??
12:23 paramat the option is harmless so as long as it is strongly wanted ..
12:23 Shara Most servers I know of are using the old move option as well. Might just be chance that those happen to be the servers I looked at, but still.. it says something
12:24 paramat yeah unsurprising
12:25 tenplus1 that would work fussel, yes
12:26 tenplus1 but... why change the api, I could easily add a new protection rune level 2 that does same thing ?!?!
12:26 sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
12:26 Shara actually, that could be a nice option
12:27 Shara I get so many complaints about people finding ways to kill pets on DL....
12:27 tenplus1 hi sniper ?
12:27 tenplus1 Shara, rune or paramats setting ?
12:28 Shara setting, but not sure if only paramat should get it :P
12:29 RobbieF Hi there tenplus1!
12:29 tenplus1 o//
12:29 RobbieF Hi friends
12:29 * RobbieF shakes fist at enemies
12:31 tenplus1 https://imgoat.com/uploads/16a5320fa4/30293.jpg wowser
12:37 tenplus1 is there a way to limit entity footstep sounds at a distance ?  I have players saying they can hear mobs walking around 30 blocks away
12:38 DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub
12:38 tenplus1 hi DS
12:38 DS-minetest hi
12:42 paramat not sure, but default sound distance is 32 if unspecified
12:43 tenplus1 how do you specify ?
12:43 DS-minetest look into the api
12:45 tenplus1 this is all I see in api:  makes_footstep_sound = false,
12:45 tenplus1 no setting for distance
12:45 paramat i doubt there's a setting for it
12:45 tenplus1 buuuuuuuuuu
12:46 paramat issue/PR! :]
12:47 tenplus1 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6131
12:52 lisac joined #minetest-hub
12:53 tenplus1 hi lisac
12:53 lisac_ Hey tenplus1
13:01 IhrFussel How many of you would punish players asking in the public chat "wanna play on another server?"
13:02 tenplus1 I leave it up to them, but give warning at advertising of other servers in channel
13:02 sc3k joined #minetest-hub
13:02 tenplus1 hi sc3k
13:03 sc3k hello tenplus1
13:17 lisac tenplus1, why warn players about asking to play on another server?
13:17 lisac seems oppressive.
13:17 lisac If they don't like your server, they are free to go. And if the other server is better then yours, they'll stay there
13:17 lisac if not, they'll return
13:18 tenplus1 no no... I meant it's fine to ask someone to play elsewhere... but... specifically coming onto server to advertise another server is a no no
13:18 lisac okay :)
13:18 tenplus1 :PP
13:18 Shara yea, there is quite a difference between the two :P
13:19 Raven262 lisac, we need a server.
13:19 Raven262 One server to rule them all.
13:20 IhrFussel I'm not sure if I want to allow my players to ask it publically or in PMs ... IMO it is kind of rude to let everyone know "this server isn't good for me I need a better one who comes with me?"
13:21 tenplus1 depends if the player in question is asking in malice
13:22 Raven262 hehe /revoke shout
13:22 Raven262 Gonna do that on Craig's server in these cases
13:22 tenplus1 good option :D
13:25 IhrFussel tenplus1, in the case I just had it was a player joining JUST TO ask the players if they want to play with him on another server
13:26 tenplus1 ah, in that case it's a no go...  I'd consider that specifically advertising another server... he should have msg'd the players in question
13:27 IhrFussel Is it also advertising if the player doesn't mention a server name?
13:27 Shara I don't like when players join only for that
13:28 Shara If someone joins and happens to talk about other servers, then leaves to play elsewhere after playing for a bit, that's fine.
13:28 Shara But joining just to try and get players to go elsewhere with them... ikkk
13:29 Shara I usually try to warn before actually doing anything though
13:29 tenplus1 yeah
13:30 Shara I play on other servers myself, can't expect my players not to :P
13:31 CWz local spawn_protected = tonumber(minetest.setting_g​et("mobs_spawn_protected")) or 1 does this mean that by default they don't spawn in protected areas?
13:34 tenplus1 hi CWz
13:34 CWz Ello
13:34 CWz tenplus1-chan
13:35 * CWz wonders where's Zeno`-sama
13:35 tenplus1 am gonna change that just now CWz
13:35 CWz change what
13:35 tenplus1 I had ideas planned for spawning in protected areas
13:36 tenplus1 but those are long since lost... so unless mobs_spawn_protected = false    they wont spawn inside protected areas
13:37 CWz i also noticed that mobs don't seem to deal damage in spawn
13:37 tenplus1 how so ?  I have dm's kicking my butt just now in spawn area :D
13:38 CWz Hmm not sure
13:44 tenplus1 k, git updated...  'mobs_spawn_protected' is a bool value now (default: true)
13:48 octacian joined #minetest-hub
13:48 tenplus1 wb oc
13:54 CWz so now mobs will spawn in protected areas by default
13:54 CWz ...
13:54 tenplus1 yes
13:55 sc3k joined #minetest-hub
14:04 DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub
14:06 tenplus1 wb
14:08 DS-minetest thy
14:08 DS-minetest thx*
14:34 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
14:34 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
14:35 tenplus1 connection issues Megaf?
14:38 Megaf nah, just built the upstream kernel myself
14:38 Megaf Linux BigSam 4.12.0 #1 SMP Thu Jul 13 11:16:24 -03 2017 x86_64 GNU/Linux
14:38 Megaf Linux version 4.12.0 (root@BigSam) (gcc version 6.3.0 20170516 (Debian 6.3.0-18) ) #1 SMP Thu Jul 13 11:16:24 -03 2017
14:38 Megaf :D
14:38 tenplus1 :P
14:38 tenplus1 am still on 4.11 for now :D
14:38 Megaf BigSam is my hostname
14:38 Megaf well, gtg, see you later, will be just idling here
14:38 tenplus1 o/
14:49 paramat joined #minetest-hub
14:50 IhrFussel tenplus1, sometimes the mobs suddenly disappear when they follow a player or are attacked and still have some HP left...lifetime counter up?
14:51 tenplus1 it could be... they shouldnt disappear unless 10 blocks away from player though...
14:51 IhrFussel I just attacked 2 mobs..I killed one and it dropped normally and the one next to it despawned with no drops before I could kill it o.o
14:52 tenplus1 strange... will check into that one
14:53 IhrFussel It doesn't happen a lot though...I'm guessing lifetime counter for some reason still counts in some cases when near a mob ... or maybe a bug with the "concurrent mobs in area"
14:57 tenplus1 if lifetimer hits 0 then it checks if player is nearby, if so mob wont despawn...
14:59 tenplus1 yeah it all works fine...  strange ?!?!
14:59 tenplus1 in mobs api line 2424 to 2456 deals with despawning
15:00 CWz i wonder which ripoff client names their players invite_(number)
15:02 IhrFussel tenplus1, something I observed: It only seems to happen when the mob was loaded, THEN the player left so mob unloaded and later the mob loaded again...it seems to only happen then
15:04 tenplus1 hrm, could be that remove_far option is enabled, in which case mobs despawn if the slip into an unloaded bit of map
15:04 tenplus1 in that case they dont use lifetimers at all
15:05 IhrFussel So you mean the mod doesn't actually *see* when a mob unloads in that case?
15:06 IhrFussel Cause the mobs clearly still exist when I tp back to them, they only disappear after X secs
15:07 IhrFussel And yes I have that enabled remove_far_mobs = true so should I try to disable and check?
15:07 tenplus1 I have a setting called 'remove_far_mobs'  - when active if a mob ends up inside an unloaded part of map it'll despawn (unless it's a tamed animal or npc)
15:07 tenplus1 if false then lifetimers come into play
15:08 IhrFussel Yes but the mobs don't despawn in unloaded blocks...they seem to despawn right next to the player
15:08 tenplus1 the latest map changes load mapchunks in front of players now... could be when the mob was behind it fell into an unloaded area of map... will have to test
15:08 tenplus1 and even then it should never despawn within 10 blocks of player
15:08 tenplus1 that part is hardcodd
15:09 IhrFussel Question: if I disable remove_far_mobs = true ... how big will the performance impact be?
15:09 tenplus1 it'll still count mobs per active area so none should spawn until old one's initially despawn
15:12 IhrFussel So if I understand it correctly each spawned mob has a timestamp sort of in the meta data and whenever it's inside the active block range the timestamp will be compared to the current time and if it hit X secs it will despawn (unless owned)?
15:15 IhrFussel If it works like that I'm not sure if I'd like that better...some of my mobs have LOTS of HP ... it would be pretty bad if they despawned after much effort from a player...is there a way to ignore the lifetimer when the mob is attacking?
15:15 tenplus1 if a mob is attacking player then timer will NOT go down...
15:16 tenplus1 they dont despawn in the middle of battle, that's one of the checks
15:16 IhrFussel Oh alright then I'll try this option
15:16 tenplus1 :P
15:17 IhrFussel Thanks^^
15:24 tenplus1 check lines 2424 to 2456 and see if you can gimmie ideas on making it better
15:43 Krock joined #minetest-hub
15:43 Krock hi tenplus1
15:43 tenplus1 hey Krock :P
15:50 Shara Okay... silly question maybe, but how do I actually get CSM mods to work? :)
15:50 tenplus1 'clientmods' folder inside .minetest
15:50 Shara Yea got as far as putting the mod there
15:50 tenplus1 inside that a mods.conf file containing mods to enable
15:50 tenplus1 load_mod_csm_chest_inspector = true
15:50 tenplus1 or so I was told
15:50 Shara ahh, so you have to name the specific mod in conf?
15:51 tenplus1 think so, yeah
15:51 tenplus1 it's a bit of a pain to use
15:51 Shara I found a reference to enable_client_modding = true and assumed it was just one general enable
15:51 Shara trying to test ways to beat oredetect, but of course, need oredetect running to see if it beats them :P
15:52 tenplus1 I like the [noores] mid
15:52 tenplus1 er... no_ores mod
15:52 Shara does that make stoen drop ore?
15:52 tenplus1 removes them completely and has a chance of digging stone to obtain them :D
15:52 Shara if so, I really dislike that
15:52 Shara ewww
15:52 tenplus1 ehehehehe
15:52 Shara no ta :P
15:53 Shara this still doens't seem to work
15:53 Shara but maybe because I have no clue what I am meant to see
15:54 tenplus1 someone mentioned they were re-doinging mod menu and showing client mods on it...
15:54 tenplus1 brb
15:58 IhrFussel I modified the bones now so that players get to keep their stuff if really no air or water node can be found 5 nodes around them...I think DROPPING the items is bad
16:00 tenplus1 that's kinda cheating dude
16:00 tenplus1 the only way it it wouldnt drop bones is if player is using noclip and in a solid mass of nodes... it would always find an empty space or water node
16:00 IhrFussel Why cheating? It's pretty unlikely that there will be no air/water 5 nodes in all directions
16:01 IhrFussel Nope, you forget lava..I removed that from may_replace cause it sounds ridiculous to have players SWIM in LAVA to get their bones back
16:02 IhrFussel Many players are STUCK this way cause they try to get their bones and die, respawn, swim, die etc etc
16:02 Shara and now it tries to run, but oredetect itself gives an error :P
16:03 tenplus1 if the player doesnt have protection and tries to swim in lava or drown in water then items SHOULD drop
16:03 tenplus1 it's player progression that teaches them lessons
16:04 IhrFussel I disagree with lava...you shouldn't take away their stuff like that
16:05 tenplus1 they never learn then, they would easily kill themselves in lava knowing they can keep items
16:05 tenplus1 it's a cheaty way to do things.. you'd be as well setting  bones_mode = keep
16:05 Shara it's not always the player's fault if they died in lava
16:05 tenplus1 generally no, but once they learn they can keep items by doing so they take more risks
16:05 tenplus1 and never learn
16:06 tenplus1 then you lose progression in a game
16:06 IhrFussel You seem to ignore players who like to pour lava ov er other players...for example
16:06 lisac Hey IhrFussel
16:06 lisac Hi Shara
16:06 tenplus1 if pvp is enabled and it's ok for players to fight then it's one of those things
16:06 tenplus1 hi lisac
16:07 IhrFussel Lava does damage in any mode AFAIK
16:07 lisac tenplus1, do you know how WoW handles whether or not player can PvP?
16:07 IhrFussel Unless everything is creative
16:07 lisac Player must enable his PvP flag if he wants to kill other players
16:07 lisac and can only attack players with PvP flag enabled
16:08 tenplus1 good idea lisac
16:08 Shara Hi lisac
16:08 IhrFussel lisac, that is exactly how it works on my server
16:08 Shara Fussel, servers runnign ethereal have armour that protects against lava
16:08 lisac IhrFussel, I see. Well, it seems to be the best system
16:08 Shara running*
16:08 lisac And of course there are PvP worlds
16:08 lisac on which everyone can PvP everyone
16:09 lisac which results in level 60 people ganking level 20 people
16:09 IhrFussel Enable /pvpon disable /pvpoff ... you can only attack others if both you and them have it enabled and once enabled you have to wait 30 secs before you can disable it again...that prevents cheaky PKs
16:10 IhrFussel cheeky*
16:10 IhrFussel Or is it sneaky? Not sure :P
16:10 lisac IhrFussel, problem then becomes people making gangs
16:10 lisac ex. 10 people team up and kill others
16:10 lisac who marked PvP on
16:10 tenplus1 how about I change it so that it looks not only for "air" but a free water or lava space for bones to be set ?
16:10 lisac and can't turn it off in 30 seconds
16:11 IhrFussel tenplus1, that is how it already works by default...may_replace contains air, water and lava cause it checks for liquids ... but If trhe player dies DEEP DOWN in lava that will not help
16:12 tenplus1 that's what the change fixes
16:12 tenplus1 it will always find a spot
16:12 tenplus1 to place bones wether in air, water or lava
16:13 IhrFussel It already placed bones in lava but tell me how players are supposed to GET to the bones without being killed again?
16:13 IhrFussel In most cases they have no armor anymore...you survive 2 hits with no armor, 3 hits = dead
16:14 tenplus1 they use tactics and build a bridge to bones or hollow out lava to get to them... it's not that hard
16:15 Shara I suggest dont let armour drop
16:15 IhrFussel lisac, but those gangs also can just kill others who enabled PvP
16:15 sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
16:15 Shara And okay... I seem to have oredetect running, but any advice on how I actually do anything with it?
16:16 sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
16:16 Shara I see I can save some settings of my own and how to add nodes for it to include, but now how to actually detect...
16:16 IhrFussel That would be a good idea...let players keep their armor at least if you expect them to swim/maneuver in lava
16:16 IhrFussel Or make it an option
16:16 tenplus1 fussel, that's an option inside 3d_armor itself... you can keep armor when you die
16:16 tenplus1 that's how Xanadu is
16:17 Shara DL uses that option as well
16:17 tenplus1 ARMOR_DESTROY = false
16:17 IhrFussel Okay well I don't need it cause bones will not be placed in lava anymore on my server and items will also not drop inside lava
16:17 tenplus1 but I really wouldnt allow players to keep items on a survival server at all if I can help it... takes away the fun and challenge of dying
16:18 Shara tenplus1: I'll just disagree with you there when it comes to armour :P
16:18 tenplus1 heh
16:18 Shara but I guess no one can help me anyway
16:19 IhrFussel I'm not sure I agree that dieing and walking back to your stuff is an essential part of a survival server...there are wayy better ways to entertain the players honestly
16:19 lisac <Shara> I see I can save some settings of my own and how to add nodes for it to include, but now how to actually detect...
16:19 tenplus1 true, giving them the ability to even walk back to bones to obtain lost items is a luxury on survival... but it's there just incase... sometimes its easier to count losses and get new items
16:19 lisac Just add a node, ex default:stone_with_mese
16:19 lisac then set it to on
16:20 lisac and then punch a node in every radius, ex if radius is 20, punch one node every 20 nodes
16:20 lisac it'll print out on chat locations of every stone_with_mese
16:21 lisac Disclaimer: I'm not in any way encouraging or supporting the practice of using oredetect.
16:21 Shara lisac: I'm only trying to get it working so I can test ways to beat it
16:21 lisac best way to beat it would be to store ore info in stone metadata
16:22 lisac and make it default:stone
16:22 Shara I don't want that though
16:22 Shara WHole enjoyment of mining for me is actually looking for the ores
16:22 Shara And I dont see why I should lose that because some people cheat
16:23 lisac Also, i doubt the removal of send_chat_message would help
16:23 lisac and if any other CSM function gets removed, especially the ones used for cheating, players will just start using the old CSM code
16:23 lisac or rather, the cheaters
16:23 lisac it's only reducing the fun for legit players looking for ways to improve gameplay
16:23 Shara What I am testing is something else completely that my server alone will control
16:23 tenplus1 Shara: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopi
16:24 tenplus1 https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.p​hp?f=53&amp;t=18079&amp;hilit=csm+ore
16:24 Shara tenplus1: I don't need to see someone else's suggestions about how to beat it
16:24 tenplus1 thought it would help
16:24 Shara I need to get the mod working so I can test if what I already started working on beats it
16:24 Shara problem is, though I added nodes to it, I can't seem to make it print anything
16:25 lisac did you set it to on, Shara?
16:26 lisac .help oredetect
16:26 Megaf back
16:26 Shara I used toggle command and it said it is enabled
16:26 Shara and yes, help was first thing I checked
16:26 tenplus1 wb mf
16:26 * Megaf roars for Shara
16:26 Shara Hi Megaf
16:26 Shara I wonder if the bits of the mod I had to chop out just to make it not give errors are the issue here...
16:27 tenplus1 ?????  I'm not authorised to read this forum... cant even see oredetect mod
16:27 tenplus1 what gives ?!?!
16:27 Shara I guess devs hid it based on complaints
16:28 tenplus1 ahh, good call
16:28 Shara if I run the mod as is, I get an error
16:28 tenplus1 I cant test it then
16:28 Shara well, search it and you can just get it from github
16:28 tenplus1 ;P
16:28 DS-minetest yeah, but i added "evil" label to repo
16:29 Shara Hi DS
16:29 DS-minetest Shara: what error?
16:29 DS-minetest hi Shara
16:29 DS-minetest something about an s?
16:29 Shara init.lua:157: attempt to call field 'register_on_receiving_chat_message' (a nil value)
16:29 tenplus1 wb DS
16:29 DS-minetest thx tenplus1
16:30 DS-minetest Shara: yeah, you are using not the newest dev, you can add an s to fix
16:30 lisac WTF? How did anyone think hiding the mod was a good idea? That won't prevent the ones who'd like to use it from doing so, as the git repo is still up
16:30 tenplus1 seems chest inspector loads but oredetect doesnt ?!/!
16:30 Shara DS; can you please PM me where to get it?
16:35 tenplus1 DS-minetest: oredetect aint loading
16:39 Shara anyone know how I reenable the console..?
16:43 DS-minetest i'll continue making my csm waypoints mod now that i have csm_worldname
16:43 sniper570 joined #minetest-hub
16:43 tenplus1 k, loaded and active...  if it's this fiddly to get csm mods working then no-one will really use them much
16:44 sniper570 joined #minetest-hub
16:47 paramat joined #minetest-hub
16:47 tenplus1 wb paramat
17:15 Jordach VanessaE, ShadowNinja netsplit detected
17:15 tenplus1 hi jordach
17:16 VanessaE Jordach: it's shu.inchra.chat, I think that's Nate's server
17:16 Jordach lul
17:16 tenplus1 hi Vanessa
17:17 VanessaE hi
17:22 CWz Ello VanessaE
17:23 VanessaE hi
17:25 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
17:25 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
17:49 grandolf_ joined #minetest-hub
17:49 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
17:49 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
17:53 Hijiri !tell
17:53 ShadowBot Hijiri: tell <nick1[,nick2[,...]]> <text>
18:05 garywhite VanessaE: I think it is shu, Nate is nowhere to be seen
18:06 ThomasMonroe gary, he is on vacation for 2 weeks
18:07 tenplus1 hi Hijiri, hi gary
18:07 garywhite hi ten, & Tre that means that we're probably gonna have 1/3 of Inchra's servers gone till then
18:07 ThomasMonroe whats the prob?
18:09 garywhite Nate's server just went down, & so nobody can fix it
18:11 Krock Fixer, I was able to add some of the requested features into the radar function today. Also increased its size to 15x15 ;)
18:11 Fixer Krock: niice
18:11 Krock further features may follow in the next days
18:12 Fixer will check i
18:12 Fixer t
18:12 Krock I just hope all the scaling settings won't mess up everything
18:12 ThomasMonroe ok gary
18:27 xubuntu joined #minetest-hub
18:28 tenplus1 heh
18:28 IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
18:29 tenplus1 wb fussel
18:30 IhrFussel Great my PC seems to have an issue...earlier the entire OS suddenly froze then after 3 minutes the screen turned lost any signal and I had to reboot...then the BIOS told me DISK BOOT FAILURE ... and now I booted from USB
18:31 IhrFussel Memtest says no errors with RAM, CPU temp is not normal but also not critical (55°C)
18:31 tenplus1 what Os ya got ?
18:31 IhrFussel Xubuntu 16.04 is on my HDD on the stick I got 14.04
18:32 IhrFussel And I can't seem to connect to my server via USB...it ALWAYS freeues at 84% media
18:33 IhrFussel freezes*
18:33 tenplus1 you usin gintel chipset ?
18:33 IhrFussel Intel Celeron
18:33 IhrFussel Extremely old but can it really be the CPU?
18:34 tenplus1 when you installed and run 16.04, did you go into additional drivers and enable intel microcode ?
18:34 IhrFussel I had to select "use proprietary drivers" cause it was the only option
18:35 IhrFussel I think the microcode option was enabled too
18:35 tenplus1 ah kewl
18:35 tenplus1 what else did you run/install
18:36 Not joined #minetest-hub
18:36 IhrFussel First I thought my HDD said goodbye..but the USB stick gave me the option "boot from hard disk" and it suddenly worked again ... I installed lots of software/updates, I used the OS for over 1 year
18:37 IhrFussel What I didn't try yet was booting completely from HDD again, maybe I should do that to see if the HDD is not damaged
18:38 paramat joined #minetest-hub
18:38 tenplus1 give it a go fussel
18:38 tenplus1 how much mem you got on system ?
18:38 IhrFussel But what else can cause such lockups then? If it's not CPU,RAM or HDD?? The computer is very old 768 MB
18:39 lisac joined #minetest-hub
18:39 shivajiva how sure are you the PSU is good?
18:40 tenplus1 hi shiva
18:40 shivajiva hi tenplus1
18:40 tenplus1 xubuntu 16.04 on a standard boot uses at least 340mb memory... could be swap usage... easy fix
18:41 IhrFussel I'll try to boot completely from HDD now...and will rejoin either when it worked or when I booted from USB again .. shivajiva I have actually pretty much NO CLUE about the PC parts I can only do what I know which is check HDD and RAM...CPU temp is fine and people online say if the temp is fine the whole CPU is mostly fine too
18:42 tenplus1 fussel, will give you a switch to apply when you reboot :P
18:48 IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
18:49 tenplus1 wb fussel
18:50 IhrFussel Okay I guess my HDD is actually gone...when I try to choose Hard Disk as boot device in BIOS it boots directly from USB
18:50 tenplus1 ide or sata drive ?
18:50 IhrFussel Hitachi SATA I think
18:51 tenplus1 and it has enough free space on your boot partition ?
18:51 elinor joined #minetest-hub
18:52 IhrFussel It has 76 GB total and it worked fine for over a year...it must be damaged now if my BIOS doesn't detect it anymore
18:53 tenplus1 time for a new drive...  ebuyer.com has a sale on ssd's :D
18:53 IhrFussel The HDD is pretty old too by the way..it's from 2007 I think but hasn't been used a lot
18:54 tenplus1 even then, old mechanical hdd's have a life, especially when the internal temp is 28c or above... it damages drive
18:55 IhrFussel tenplus1, I don't want to invest in this old machine... I will look for a newer one tomorrow...doesn't need to be the fastest
18:55 tenplus1 agree'd...  would be easier getting a cheap system < 100 quid to replace it with
18:55 IhrFussel 100? You mean used?
18:56 IhrFussel I think the cheapest full PCs in my electronic shop are ~ 300
18:56 tenplus1 no, I got my quad core intel setup for 99 quid... and that was free delivery... good spec
18:56 tenplus1 ebuyer.com has many deals
18:58 tenplus1 at the time I got my Lenovo quad core 2.4ghz with 4gb memory and 500gb hdd with intel gfx for 99...
18:58 tenplus1 came with kb and mouse
19:00 Krock tenplus1, sounds pretty much like what I've got here
19:00 IhrFussel tenplus1, they only ship to England haha
19:01 tenplus1 damn, thought they did worldwide
19:01 tenplus1 I thought my wee net-top was gonna bite the bullet and bought this as a replacement, then fixed net-top and still using it now :DDD
19:04 IhrFussel tenplus1, Intel Pentium is an old CPU right?
19:04 tenplus1 depends on the version...
19:04 IhrFussel J3710
19:05 tenplus1 4 core 1.6 with 2.6 burst
19:05 tenplus1 that's not too shabby... good cpi
19:05 tenplus1 *cpu
19:06 IhrFussel So I have to OC to get it to 2.6 Ghz?
19:06 tenplus1 no no.. burst = it ups the speed when it needs it
19:06 IhrFussel So 1.6 Ghz idle
19:07 tenplus1 runs at 1.6 normally, if you run a program that's cpu intensive then it rises up to 2.6
19:10 Calinou Unix Epoch1500000000
19:10 Calinou Time (UTC)Fri Jul 14 02:40:00 2017 UTC
19:10 Calinou Time (Europe/Paris)Fri Jul 14 04:40:00 2017 CEST
19:10 Calinou for those interested ;)
19:10 tenplus1 lol, hi cal
19:11 IhrFussel Okay I can try to make an installment plan with the electronics shop tomorrow if you recommend me that one
19:11 Calinou hi
19:14 IhrFussel But does anyone here have a clue why my PC always freezes at 84% media when I try to connect to my server via USB? Is the amount of data too much to handle? Can that freeze the OS?
19:15 tenplus1 basic errors are not enough hdd space to store media, not enough physical memory to load media
19:16 IhrFussel But a USB drive has much lower data bandwith than a HDD right? I will install iotop and check
19:17 Calinou just installed this on my desktop's WSL, https://github.com/alwsl/alwsl
19:17 Calinou (to replace Ubuntu)
19:17 tenplus1 also I have a switch you can use to limit memory/vm swap usage to help
19:17 Calinou I had it on my laptop already, but now I also have it on my desktop :)
19:18 IhrFussel tenplus1, could it also help with a USB drive? I mean the installation is not persistent meaning any changes I make are gone after rebooting
19:18 tenplus1 also for such an old system I'd recommend Lubuntu 16.04...
19:18 tenplus1 no need for flash drive since you dont use swap, it's all in memory
19:19 IhrFussel But my USB drive is the only thing I have right now as OS
19:20 tenplus1 damn, kinda limited
19:24 tenplus1 there is a way to get old hdd's working again but you only have a 14.04 install media
19:26 Fixer IhrFussel: you have DISC problem
19:26 IhrFussel I will check if IO freezes my OS when I connect to my server
19:26 Fixer IhrFussel: HDD or SSD whatever
19:26 Fixer IhrFussel: make a backup fast and consider buying a replacement
19:26 tenplus1 hifixer
19:26 Fixer hi
19:27 IhrFussel Fixer, I already know that cause my PC doesn't detect my HDD anymore...but would you invest in a 15 years!! old PC?
19:27 Fixer IhrFussel: just curious... HDD?
19:27 Fixer usually SSD dies like that
19:27 IhrFussel It's an old HDD SATA
19:27 Fixer oh, ok
19:28 Fixer IhrFussel: try putting it in fridge and then try to run it (but thats kinda extreme method and urban legend)
19:28 Fixer if you don't have a backup
19:29 Fixer IhrFussel: strange periodical mouse lockups is sure sign of HDD problems, seen it.
19:29 IhrFussel I don't need a backup...all I did on the PC was pretty much playing Minetest, coding some stuff and surfing the web
19:29 tenplus1 fussel, see if you can install gnome-disk-tool fromt he flash drive and run to check the hdd smart status
19:29 Wayward_One hi all
19:29 tenplus1 https://askubuntu.com/questions/528072/h​ow-can-i-check-the-smart-status-of-a-ssd​-or-hdd-on-current-versions-of-ubuntu-1
19:29 tenplus1 hi wayward
19:29 Fixer i had the same problem with HDD, but it kinda decided to live again :D
19:29 Fixer also PATA
19:29 Fixer 120 gb one
19:30 IhrFussel Mine was older likely 76 GB
19:30 IhrFussel So minetest installed once again and I can run it just fine..I'll try singleplayer
19:32 IhrFussel All I see is blue...no freeze but also no map...is USB seriously THAT slow?
19:32 Calinou 2.5" HDDs are slow
19:33 Calinou USB 2.0 also is slow
19:33 IhrFussel It is 2.0 but is it unplaybale slow?
19:33 tenplus1 to be fair I've loaded Lubuntu from usb2 flash drive and it runs well
19:34 Wayward_One I used to play minetest just fine on an 8 Gb USB 2.0 drive
19:34 Fixer Calinou: can confirm
19:34 Fixer insanely fuck-fuck-fuck slow
19:34 Wayward_One that's all i had for a while lol
19:34 IhrFussel Ok I will try to run with --info and --verbose
19:34 Fixer Calinou: i have usb one for offline backups
19:34 Fixer damn slow
19:35 paramat Shara shivajiva tenplus1 VanessaE do you want item and node definition lookups disabled by default in CSM? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5930 please add your opinions
19:37 tenplus1 done :P
19:37 paramat (i think they should be)
19:38 paramat thanks
19:41 paramat oh i see many of you have thumb-uped already, somehow i often ignore emoticons
19:42 tenplus1 emoticons are important... keep checking :DDDD
19:43 Calinou IhrFussel: is the HDD 2.5" or 3.5"?
19:43 Calinou note, pretty much all external HDDs are 5400 rpm, which is quite slower than 7200 rpm
19:46 IhrFussel Calinou, I have no access to my HDD anymore it likely died...not sure what it was Hitachi SATA is all I remember
19:46 IhrFussel It was 5400 rpm IIRC
19:46 paramat hehe they are
19:46 tenplus1 fussel, did you try installing gnome-disk-utility and see if it mounts hdd ?
19:51 IhrFussel tenplus1, gneome-disk-image-mounter? Or gnome-disks?
19:51 tenplus1 gnome disks
19:52 tenplus1 it'll let you select your HDD and check S.M.A.R.T status to see if it's failing
19:53 IhrFussel Nope it's not listed there
19:54 tenplus1 might be too old a distro version to have it in the repository
19:54 IhrFussel I mean my HDD is not listed ... Only CD/DVE Drive and my stick and 909 MB Loop Device
19:54 IhrFussel DVD*
19:55 IhrFussel And my stick is dev/sda1 which was my HDD before
19:55 tenplus1 yeah, sounds like it's life has ended :PP
20:03 tenplus1 nite folks
20:03 tenplus1 left #minetest-hub
20:21 Not joined #minetest-hub
20:31 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
20:31 sofar paramat: FYI I'm not interested in undermining the efforts to restrict CSM
20:32 sofar paramat: I'm attempting to promote defense in depth
20:32 sofar CSM is just one problem, you don't solve the hacker problem by eliminating it
20:32 nerzhul sofar, +1
20:32 sofar sure it'll be a lot harder, then people have to pay 5$ to get the hacked client from that one guy
20:33 sofar if you have issues with people discussing defense in depth, you shouldn't work on software
20:34 sofar there are so many untapped benefits from CSM... I'd hate to lose it before it becomes useful
20:34 sofar paramat: that's why I made a new discussion in the forum, separately
20:35 sofar sure you can join the discussions, but then it's just the same discussion in 2 places
20:35 sofar and the whole defense in depth aspect will be entirely forgotten like it already is forgotten in that github thread
20:35 sofar it would even be offtopic on the github thread if you ask me
20:49 paramat ok, i don't want to eliminate CSM and i don't mind discussion of defense in depth
20:50 paramat i'll make sure to not repeat the same stuff in the thread, as you request
20:51 rubenwardy about to buy a dedi
20:51 rubenwardy i3-2130/3240 2 cores / 4 threads 3.4GHz+ 8GB 2TB 100Mbps
20:58 paramat \O/
20:58 shivajiva hey sofar, next time you're in Europe you should drop in and chill with me for a few hours, I could buy you dinner. I'd like to understand the whole defense aspect myself. :)
20:59 rubenwardy sofar++
21:01 Shara count me in please
21:01 shivajiva sure :D
21:03 Shara I'm all for better defence in any way posible, but I am not seeing it, and I am not seeing any committment from devs to prioritise it.
21:06 Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
21:13 rubenwardy Minetest con! woo!
21:14 sofar heh, minetest con
21:14 rubenwardy more meet up than con
21:15 sofar so, just to paraphrase what defense in depth is, for those that do not know
21:15 rubenwardy unless people would feel like dressing up or whatever people do at cons
21:15 sofar suppose you have something valuable (money) and someone wants to steal it (thief)
21:16 sofar defense in depth is the approach that you should consider all possible opportunities to make things more difficult
21:16 sofar so e.g. don't hold money
21:16 sofar put a lock on your wallet
21:16 sofar extra bolts on the door
21:16 sofar move the wallet around
21:16 sofar etc
21:17 sofar in the case of cheaters, you can apply the same principle
21:18 sofar removing or restricting CSM is one way
21:18 sofar but there are far more possible tactics you can take that will be beneficial
21:18 sofar and defeating oredetect may make the game more interesting
21:18 sofar just look at Duane's solution
21:18 Shara sofar: problem is, CSM is a tiny tiny little small teeny part of the issue for me
21:19 sofar that's my point
21:19 sofar I entirely agree with that
21:19 Shara can we get some serious committment from devs to address this then?
21:19 sofar it still doesn't fix hack flyers and noclippers
21:19 sofar tbh I don't even know what other problems exist
21:20 sofar lag-wall-breakers?
21:20 sofar people defeating node protections?
21:20 sofar chat flooders?
21:20 sofar ban evaders?
21:22 shivajiva could there be a commitment to validating physics server side so players can't cheat, I realise that's not a trivial thing ofc
21:22 Shara damage evading
21:22 Shara I had someone who did not take damage wandering round spawn on a PVP server killing players
21:22 sofar or even damage hacks like 1000 damange
21:23 sofar all of that has nothing to do with CSM
21:23 sofar we need defenses against that
21:23 Shara Yup, which is why I do not want this turned into just a CSM issue
21:23 Shara CSM IS an issue, but only one
21:24 Shara And as I have said in my comments on github, I dont mind how this is solved, I just want actual steps toward solving it
21:24 sofar I may be an idealist, but I am convinced that we can solve all of these issues without killing CSM
21:24 sofar est31's noclip code was a good start, too bad he didn't finish
21:25 Shara sofar: is this something you are willing to work on? It would certainly be appreciated by many server owners if so
21:25 sofar I'm not doing any minetest coding atm
21:26 sofar interested? absolutely
21:26 sofar time? none :)
21:26 Shara that seems to be the common answer sadly
21:26 sofar afk
21:26 shivajiva so as server admins we need control of CSM to allow the defense mechanisms to be developed
21:26 Shara it's great for devs to be interested, but we need devs who will actually do something
21:27 RobbieF left #minetest-hub
21:27 Shara I fully appreciate the time element, but that doesn't lessen the need
21:32 nerzhul Shara, damage evading is not possible
21:34 NatedaGr8 joined #minetest-hub
21:36 Shara nerzhul: my own eyes tell me otherwise
21:36 Shara I even tried to kill that player using my admin weapon. Did not die.
21:36 nerzhul evading damage is possible in only one case: falling
21:36 nerzhul other damages are handled server side
21:37 nerzhul if player doesn't take damage it means you have a bug in your mod
21:37 Shara which mod?
21:37 Shara No mod controls this.
21:38 Shara multiple people on my server verified this
21:39 Shara maybe someone else remembers, wasn't this one of the things covered by the minehacker client?
22:01 Fixer this needs investigation
22:07 elinor Fire damage can be avoided too.
22:21 paramat joined #minetest-hub
22:28 kaeza joined #minetest-hub
22:29 desktop_test joined #minetest-hub
22:32 desktop_test joined #minetest-hub
22:43 desktop_test joined #minetest-hub
22:44 octacian Shara: I am positive that non-fall damage evasion is not possible
22:44 octacian As nerzhul said, all other damage is handled entirely server-side
22:44 Hijiri octacian: what about damage per second nodes
22:44 octacian Although it might be possible to make the client itself not respond to the damage updates sent by the server.... huh
22:45 Shara which is of course what is happening
22:45 octacian Hijiri: Nope. That's server-side, unless what I mentioned above is true...
22:45 Hijiri octacian: a client could fake being on a nearby non-damaging node
22:45 * octacian has to work on his hacked client now, it's getting outdated :P
22:45 octacian half-jk
22:45 nerzhul Hijiri, the DPS node damage evasion is fixed in 0.4.16 i patched core against this
22:45 Shara from what I recall, minehacker did it, and people had trouble accepting it was possible then as well
22:45 octacian Hijiri: That's true. For that matter, the client could fake never moving from a single spawn position
22:45 Hijiri nerzhul: you could evade by reporting a wrong position
22:46 Hijiri octacian: yeah but then you would get anticheated when you try to interact
22:46 nerzhul if you report a wrong position server cannot help you
22:46 octacian Shara: wuhh? I used to have a copy of minehacker, maybe I'll look into this...
22:46 nerzhul you are not at the right position, you cannot verify this server side it's a fact
22:46 Shara I dont recall if it was about position or not
22:46 Hijiri nerzhul: I guess so, as far as the server is concerned you are at the fake position
22:46 nerzhul but node dps damage in 0.4.15 is client side, in 0.4.16 it's server side
22:46 Shara I am travelling and dont have the cood to look at
22:47 octacian joined #minetest-hub
22:47 nerzhul fake position means many things will not be right, client side and server side you cannot prevent teleport
22:47 Shara this happened on a 0.4.16 server anyway
22:47 octacian My internet just entirely stopped working for a second...
22:47 Shara stable, not dev
22:47 Hijiri well, server side player physics would prevent it
22:48 octacian Client-prediction and server-side reconciliation is the way to go
22:48 Hijiri the problem with anticheat right now is that the anticheat system doesn't know enough about how the player is supposed to move, e.g. speed mod
22:48 nerzhul server side physics cannot be possible
22:48 octacian Entirely server-side physics would be wayyy too laggy
22:48 Shara Any progress at all would be welcome
22:48 octacian True.
22:48 nerzhul it's possible in a static map, not a voxel map
22:48 Hijiri I mean server sided with client prediction
22:48 nerzhul i tested falling damage prevention it's just ... nearly impossible as lag is not predictible and there is false positives eerytime
22:49 Hijiri even with voxels the map is mostly static
22:49 Hijiri it's ok if the client gets rubberbanded occasionally
22:49 Shara I dont care much about falling damage to be honest
22:49 octacian I wonder how exactly the minehacker damage evasion worked though... I'm going to guess that the guy simply made the client ignore the fact that it had taken damage, therefore no death screen and no healthbar chang3
22:49 nerzhul it's not as static as a plane you have in a class map
22:49 Shara I do care about fly/noclip and damage
22:49 nerzhul it's far more complicated to calculate as you have many planes
22:49 Shara octacian: from what I recall, it just deleted some code... but I might be wrong
22:50 Hijiri You would just calculate player movement how it's done on the client right now
22:50 octacian Shara: Probably true. Does anyone here happen to have a copy of minehacker?
22:50 Hijiri except maybe with some delay to account for lag
22:50 nerzhul octacian, no death screen i think too, but server ignore events from dead players normally
22:50 octacian nerzhul: Yes, that's what doesn't make sense to me...
22:50 nerzhul maybe some packets doesn't take account about that
22:50 nerzhul but i'm pretty sure movement ignore
22:51 octacian It could be possible that he simple skipped the death screen and updated the position of the player back to pre-death position afterword? Not very familiar with the client codebase though
22:52 nerzhul maybe
22:53 Shara I have a copy, but not here
22:53 desktop_test joined #minetest-hub
22:53 nerzhul see you later
22:54 octacian I have a copy somewhere, gotta dig it up
22:54 octacian Was hoping I wouldn't have to xD
22:54 Shara I can check when I am home next week
22:54 Shara I am jsut going from memory of what others said at the time though, since I never did dig into the code much
22:54 Shara I only got hold of a copy to pass on to the devs back then
22:55 Shara (did not pay of course)
22:55 octacian How's that?
22:55 Shara Someone who paid for it owed me a favour :)
22:55 octacian Got your copy from someone who did pay, or what?
22:55 octacian Ah, I see
22:55 octacian I got a copy when he had it on sale for $5
22:55 Shara I would never pay for something liek that
22:55 Shara like*
22:56 octacian heh, I rarely would, however, this was an exception for several reasons
22:57 Shara I was hoping the devs would use it to look into ways to stop such cheats
22:57 Shara I think it did lead to preventing people avoiding death by drowning at least
23:00 Calinou <octacian> I got a copy when he had it on sale for $5
23:00 Calinou meh, you shouldn't have given money to bad people
23:01 Calinou creating a cheat client does not make you deserve any money for it
23:01 octacian heh, As I said, this was an exception for several reasons
23:02 octacian And BTW, if anyone happens to want a copy, just ask :P
23:02 Shara please limit distribution to those you can reasonably expect to be interested in fixing issues...
23:03 octacian Yes, I'm aware.
23:03 octacian Such a client shouldn't be free distribution considering some of the stuff it does :/
23:03 Shara I have seen worse, but yes...
23:03 Shara Or well, might depend on your opinion of worse
23:04 octacian ugh, Well, so much for that guy promising to fix some of the issues he exposed with Minehacker :rofl:
23:04 Shara The "fake WE" client was more worrying to me, but I think the creator never distributed it
23:04 octacian That would be very worrying...
23:04 octacian I didn't actually work, did it?
23:05 Shara It worked
23:05 Shara He demoed it for me
23:05 octacian O_o
23:05 Shara But it couldn't bypass protection
23:05 octacian Ah, I see.
23:05 octacian I suppose it involved rapidly breaking or placing the needed blocks client-side?
23:05 Shara I had some ideas but never tried to reproduce it
23:06 octacian Not worth spending time on IMO
23:06 Shara Same thought
23:06 Shara as interesting as I find such things, I am interested in the fixes for them, not in copying them
23:07 Shara but it was a bit of an eye opener
23:13 elinor You can't respawn and teleport to the previous position unless the previous position is very close to the position where you spawn.
23:13 octacian Why's that?
23:13 Sokomine joined #minetest-hub
23:15 Hijiri movement anticheat?
23:15 elinor Because Server::process_PlayerPos checks how fast you are moving and sends your position back if you are moving too fast.
23:15 elinor That incidentally prevents not just walking too fast but also teleporting too far away.
23:16 octacian You could ignore that
23:16 Hijiri the server won't send you the blocks around you though
23:16 Hijiri because it has your position at the spawn loc
23:16 elinor The server won't ignore it though...
23:16 elinor And the server won't let you interact from far away.
23:16 octacian hmm, I see
23:16 Hijiri and since anticheat is enabled you won't be able to pick up your items
23:16 octacian You could send the new position in steps
23:16 elinor That too.
23:17 Hijiri octacian: you could, I'm guessing minehacker does that, assuming it's the one that claimed to bypass speed anticheat?
23:17 elinor Hijiri: Unless the items are in bones.
23:17 elinor Doing things with inventories when dead is something that's not prevented currently.
23:18 Hijiri oh, didn't know
23:18 Hijiri at least that could be prevented server side though
23:18 Hijiri if someone fixes it
23:18 elinor octacian: You can send the new positions in steps, but the server cares about the time. It will take you just as much time to teleport to the previous location as it would take to walk back there, minus some tolerance.
23:19 Hijiri well, the steps can go through walls
23:19 Hijiri and you don't have to jump around
23:19 Hijiri so it would probably take less time
23:19 Hijiri oh yeah also water movement
23:19 Hijiri you can ignore liquid slowdown
23:20 elinor Yeah.
23:21 Shara Hijiri: I'm not sure if it could bypass speed anticheat... from what I recall, the server it showed in the video for that did not have anti cheat enabled...
23:22 Hijiri oh
23:22 Shara Doesn't mean it didn't do it or that it's not possible though, just that the video I saw certainly wasn't proof
23:22 Shara I really should have tested it properly before
23:23 elinor I cannot think of any way it would be possible...
23:24 elinor Same for ignoring weapon damage or node damage, assuming there are no bugs in the mods.
23:25 Shara I dont see how it could have been a mod in the case of my server
23:25 Shara especially since minehacker claimed to manage this, and I seem to recall it being confirmed
23:26 Shara but if someone can point out it's a  mod I run and it can be fixed that way, I'd be equally happy. I just want it fixed
23:26 Hijiri I thought minehacker came out before CSM was a thing
23:26 Hijiri oh, you mean on the server
23:26 octacian Hijiri: BTW though, it did :P
23:26 elinor To manage interacting with things after being killed by weapon or node damage?
23:27 Shara CSM is only  a small part of why server owners are not all happy
23:27 Shara elinor: the exact issue in this case was a player that simply did not take damage or diem even when hit with an admin weapon that should one hit kill any player
23:27 Shara die*
23:28 Shara They were reported by multiple players, and I joined myself to verify it before banning them
23:28 Hijiri I don't think that should be possible
23:29 elinor The WorldEdit bug was fixed on that server?
23:29 Shara well, it happened
23:29 Shara Yes, that was fixed
23:29 Hijiri can clients send negative damage?
23:29 Hijiri like whenc lients send fall damage
23:29 elinor Nope, Hijiri.
23:29 Shara I updated WE there myself
23:30 elinor The damage is a u8, so it can't be negative.
23:30 elinor (See https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/mas​ter/src/network/serverpackethandler.cpp#L1090...)
23:30 Hijiri alright
23:31 tumeninodes joined #minetest-hub
23:33 elinor Shara: Any items on your server that can prevent damage or that could explain this in some way if the player had had access to them? Maybe even just food...
23:33 Shara Food couldn't counteract a one hit kill admin weapon
23:34 Shara even admin armour doesn't protect against that thing
23:34 tumeninodes Hi all. Hey, does anyone know if duane ever pops in here?
23:34 Shara tumeninodes: not that I know, but I don't knwo his IRC name
23:34 Fixer nice to see a discussion about cheat prevention, i've opened an issue about this long ago here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3822
23:34 Shara know*
23:35 elinor Could be a backdoor inserted before the WE bug was fixed. Unlikely, but...
23:35 tumeninodes hmmm, actually I don't recall seeing one for him
23:35 Shara elinor: I did a full check for elevated privs after fixing WE, and I think the player was a first time join as well
23:36 tumeninodes Fixer, cheat prevention will always be an endless battle though
23:37 elinor How did the admin weapon kill players?
23:37 Shara elinor: as I have said, travelling at the moment and dont have the key for that server on this machine.. so I cant double check it
23:37 Shara I think it just deals ridiculously high damage though
23:38 Shara Hmm, actually, let me check if the mod is on github
23:39 elinor Okay.
23:40 tumeninodes !tell octacian I like your back button idea very much. Mostly for embarrassing reasons :P
23:40 ShadowBot tumeninodes: O.K.
23:41 octacian tumeninodes: You could've just mentioned me :P
23:41 Shara elinor: Yup, just stupid high damage
23:41 tumeninodes oh duh
23:41 Shara damage_groups = {fleshy = 700, snappy=700, choppy=700, crumbly=700},
23:41 tumeninodes sorry
23:41 Shara It's a "destroy absolutely everything and anyone" tool
23:42 Shara The player was wearing armour, but there is no way armour would have stopped it.
23:43 elinor I'm puzzled.
23:43 Shara You and me both
23:44 Shara I also tested with a normal sword first
23:44 Shara And hit them enough times that they should have died from that
23:44 Shara The player made no attempt to dodge
23:45 octacian tumeninodes: heh, it's OK
23:45 octacian FYI, I haven't been able to work on that much recently
23:46 octacian Been working on a minigames server
23:46 octacian Then I got other important projects as well
23:46 Shara But yes, it's not like I am passing on some secondhand account that I didn't verify myself.
23:46 Shara Though it is the only confirmed case I had of damage avoidance so far
23:47 tumeninodes keeping busy is good octatian, keeps one out of trouble
23:47 sniper570 joined #minetest-hub
23:47 Shara (not the only reported one)
23:48 Shara But sleep for me. If anyone can find a mod related suggestion, would be more than happy, I just can't see how it is a mod
23:48 Shara Good night
23:48 tumeninodes night Shara
23:48 octacian Night :D
23:49 tumeninodes octacian: you're a player and a talented coder, I will ask you :P
23:50 octacian heh, OK :D
23:50 tumeninodes What are your thoughts on trying to distribute ores based on biomes?
23:51 tumeninodes coupled with duane's no ores approach
23:52 octacian duane's no ores?
23:53 octacian Never heard of that.
23:53 tumeninodes https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=9&amp;t=18063
23:53 octacian I know there's already an API to distribute decorations depending on biomes, but I've never thought about ores
23:55 tumeninodes well, sofar had started a good thread related to the ore detect CSM but, it does not seem to be going as he had planned
23:55 octacian I don't like the idea of no ores whatsoever TBH
23:56 octacian Not only would it be boring, but ores aren't invisible in IRL mines
23:56 octacian Sure, it's sorta luck to hit a particular ore vein, but the vein itself isn't invisible and there will also be traces leading up to the vein
23:56 tumeninodes well, that's fine too, everyone feels diff about things. But what about a distribution system based on biomes? Dumb idea?
23:57 octacian Amazing idea :D
23:57 octacian paramat: ^
23:57 octacian Wait.
23:57 octacian Already implemented AFAIK.
23:57 tumeninodes ? is it?
23:58 octacian However, it only applies to ores with the type vein
23:58 octacian https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4436
23:58 octacian paramat: Could biome-specific ores be expanded to non-vein types?
23:58 tumeninodes just make them all vein type :D
23:59 octacian That's a possibility, but IMO it'd be better if it was simply supported for all types of ores
23:59 tumeninodes yes
23:59 JordachL joined #minetest-hub
23:59 tumeninodes well, we definitely have enough biomes ha
23:59 octacian Plus, vein ore generation is apparently "~200x more
23:59 octacian computationally expensive than any other ore."

| Channels | #minetest-hub index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext