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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-07-18

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Time Nick Message
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00:57 shivajiva just compiled 5117ce4 and can confirm noairblocks from the sea modpack doesn't work, you get an air node with the plant inside :/
01:06 Shara Anyone have an idea why this is?
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01:36 garywhite Hello, I want to make a mod adding a Blu-ray player to Minetest (maybe eventually into homedecor), but I'd prefer it to be in creative-only, do I still have to write a recipe?
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01:42 elinor garywhite: Nope.
01:44 elinor The function used to register the item is minetest.register_craftitem, but that's separate from the function used to actually add a recipe (minetest.register_craft).
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09:52 IhrFussel Okay I take back that it only happens during downloads...it happened again last night with JUST hexchat opened so there is definitely a problem with my PC ... I opened up my tower to find out where the red light comes from...and it is the motherboard...the led sits next to 2 empty PCI slots
09:54 IhrFussel Or should I say the LED sits in between 2 empty PCI slots & the power supply slots
09:57 IhrFussel But very close to the PCI slots...one sec taking pic
10:12 IhrFussel https://i.imgur.com/ihzwdoMr.jpg
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10:18 paramat Shara , might be related https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5769 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5494 but that was fixed before 0.4.16. juhdanad is the person to tag in an issue
10:24 Shara Thanks paramat. Not even sure wha issue to make currently, since it only affects mods... But it seems it has to be something in MT.
10:24 Shara what*
10:25 lisac My minetest gold mining google form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1G8SX1​pVHYvoOA8T2d57Qi1sZYSEUZo7VCujYx1QO9J8
10:26 lisac ^I linked it yesterday too
10:26 lisac it's about gold mining in Minetest, and ability to use gold as a currency
10:26 Shara lisac: will you share the results?
10:26 lisac of course, Shara :)
10:26 lisac I'll first gather ~50 responses though
10:26 lisac maybe more
10:27 Shara how many so far?
10:27 lisac 13
10:27 Shara could take a while then
10:27 lisac probably. It's 2nd day though
10:27 Shara Feel free to ask in DL channel, since I know you sit in there
10:28 paramat also numberZero has made lots of drawtype rendering changes recently, another person to tag
10:29 Shara paramat: I'll try to collect some screenshots showing the issues for the other mods as well.
10:29 lisac thanks Shara :)
10:29 Shara lisac: no problem. Curious of the results
10:29 Shara And of mine... university grades are in
10:30 * Shara runs away to do some reading :P
10:30 lisac lol see you :)
10:31 IhrFussel Soo...it's telling me Minetest already is the newest version "201707161919-0~d60434c~ubuntu16.04.1" but AFAIK today is the 18th worldwide already...???
10:32 IhrFussel Oh wait...
10:33 IhrFussel I forgot the stupid apt-get update haha
10:35 lisac IhrFussel, you could try 'apt update'
10:35 lisac it's a shortcut to most used apt-get and apt-cache commands
10:35 lisac ex. 'apt install' instead of 'apt-get install'
10:35 lisac but that's not all
10:35 lisac it also has fancy progress bars
10:37 IhrFussel Alright thanks for the tip^^ Now I need to stress my GPU to see if that's the component that likely fails
10:38 lisac I think there was a hash cracking software that runs on GPU
10:38 lisac that might help
10:38 Jordach >HP EliteBook
10:38 Jordach >pro
10:38 Jordach >AMD APU
10:38 Jordach :thinking:
10:38 lisac https://hashcat.net/hashcat/
10:39 lisac hey I've also got an APU
10:39 lisac A8 7600
10:39 Jordach lisac, A12
10:39 lisac It runs fallout 4
10:39 Jordach REEEEEE
10:39 lisac ...
10:39 Jordach just install a fucking i5 and call it a day
10:39 lisac Yeah... and put it where?
10:39 lisac jam it into the cpu slot?
10:39 Jordach in the new motherboard that replaces the shitty apu
10:39 lisac then I might aswell buy a new PC
10:40 Jordach also, 1360x768 screen
10:40 Jordach that's not a fucking pro machine
10:40 Jordach my 2013 surface pro has 1080p
10:40 lisac Jordach, what do you use it for?
10:40 lisac Advanced text editing?
10:40 lisac playing Minetest?
10:44 Jordach Krita
10:44 Jordach it's the wacom panel display, not the shitty ntrig based one
10:47 lisac Jordach, you don't need fancy hardware to seize the means of production and establish communism.
10:47 Jordach LUL
10:47 Jordach communism is for facists fucks
10:48 Jordach or ANTIFA
10:48 Jordach :thinking:
10:49 lisac man you really need to read up on communism
10:49 Jordach LUL
10:50 Jordach and when they come for your middle class house and possessions
10:50 Jordach tell me again that it's the right thing to do while virtue signaling
10:51 lisac It would seem I'm not the fascist here
10:51 Jordach lisac, i'm all for freedom
10:52 Jordach but ruling goverments with marxist culture is cancer
10:52 lisac yeah that is why we don't need communist leaders
10:52 lisac just communism
10:52 Jordach cultural marxism is far worse
10:53 Jordach think the neutral planet from futurama
10:53 Jordach but that in reality itself
10:53 lisac yeah I'm thinking more Star Trek
10:54 Jordach i'm aware of any form of matter fabs or deconstruction will allow it to *properly* work
10:54 Jordach i like the idea of turning generic crap into new things
10:55 CWz still have no idea what quicktune does
10:55 lisac maybe the technology to establish communism is not there yet?
10:55 lisac CWz, it prints fancy texts
10:55 CWz huh?
10:55 Jordach lisac, Elite Dangerous is quite a good example on how the future is likely to look
10:56 lisac Jordach, I'd rather think all sci-fi works are someone's idea of how the future should or shouldn't look
10:56 Jordach lisac, Elite assumes that a third war occurred in this century
10:56 Jordach and that the corporations merged into a true federation
10:56 lisac Yeah so does Star Trek. And Fallout
10:57 lisac except in Star Trek, people united to get through the times after the war
10:57 Jordach lisac, https://www.drewwagar.com/lore/eli​te-dangerous-lore-the-federation/
10:57 lisac and in Fallout they just banded up to survive
10:58 Jordach The Federation is Space America (TM)
10:58 Jordach The Empire has "slaves" but are contracted until debts are paid off
10:58 lisac as if we don't have enough Americas already
10:58 Jordach (which means they live similar to how the swiss function)
10:58 Jordach and the Alliance being all about freedom and nothing else
10:58 Jordach just a bunch of systems working together
10:59 lisac since when do the Swiss have slaves?
10:59 Jordach i mean, they work until debts are paid off and then live freely under their respective local government
10:59 Jordach it also allows other to pay off their debts
11:00 lisac yeah but that mostly sums up current life under capitalism
11:00 lisac you live to pay off debts
11:00 lisac or rather, you work to pay off debts
11:00 Jordach you work until you've paid your debts off, then its a form of socialism
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11:08 paramat luckily that hacky underwater plant method won't be needed anymore as we have https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5748
11:08 Shara paramat: it's about more than the plants
11:09 Shara Even the colourings in my own glass mod are noticeably different
11:09 Shara I also have a texture on another liquid that is now almost invisible, whereas before it used to have a very rich and deep colouring
11:11 Shara I will get some screenshots later today and post an issue
11:11 Shara I first suspected an issue with colouring some time back, but put it down to my tests being on another computer and the colouring being different
11:13 Shara but I seem to recall others complaining MT was looking drab and boring in terms of colour as well... this is likely why
11:15 paramat yeah, i know it's more than this :]
11:15 Shara I suspect the changes started in 0.4.15
11:16 Shara I skipped that client on my desktop, used it on my laptop... then put it down to screen differences
11:16 Shara But I noticed at the time that red colours looked less red to me
11:17 Shara Now my red glass looks pink instead of pale red, and black glass looks like a very pale grey
11:17 Shara swamp water used to look a deep murky greeny cyan colour with dark blotches.... now you can't even always tell there is water there until you are under it
11:18 Shara the game as a whole looks dull and stale compared to my from my old clients, where it looks fresh and colourful
11:18 Shara -my*
11:20 paramat hm there were changes to lighting / colouring by juhdanad due to hardware colourisation ..
11:20 Shara I wish I had tested more previously, but you know the issues I have compiling on my main machine
11:22 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4986 worth a read, it was controversial (for me) and looks like there were changes in hue
11:22 paramat i made a fuss and insisted a better colour match was made
11:22 paramat which was done
11:23 Shara I have never caught up on the hardware colouring or how it works
11:23 Shara Can barely keep up with everything else :P
11:24 Shara But I will get some side by side screenshots showing exactly how the changes affect mods before opening an issue, or I suppose it will be dismissed since no one raised it yet
11:24 Shara (or at least no one dug into it to a point of actually raising it... I know comments have been made about colours)
11:26 paramat it won't be dismissed :]
11:27 Shara well, hopefully not if I provide the screenshots clearly showing it :)
11:28 Shara I'm currently just getting angry that I have had complaints from players and there is nothign I can do to help them
11:28 Shara nothing*
11:28 paramat to be honest i wish we had not merged hardware colouring due to the balance or disruption/complexity against usefulness, but it was popular with lots of other devs
11:29 Shara I feel like things simply don't get tested properly
11:29 Shara and though it is improving, when devs just agree on things, other people's opinions really do seem to get ignored
11:30 Shara I know it's a "not enough active devs" issue.. and a "absolutely no official testers" issue.
11:31 Shara But it's like things keep getting added and problems don't seem to really get fixed
11:32 paramat hardware colouring did get tested fairly well, in that thread i made lighting comparisons and complained until it was better. however it could perhaps still be tuned and juhdanad is probably happy to tune it some more :]
11:32 Shara well, thats a more general issue
11:32 Shara but yes, will hope this can be improved :)
11:33 paramat we never ignore anyone's opinions, but dev approval inevitably makes a decision that is unpopular with some
11:35 paramat anyway, as you know i am always hesitant about fancy new features :]
11:35 Shara I'm glad of it :)
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13:25 Wayward_One hi all
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13:30 ThomasMonroe hi
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14:13 tenplus1 hi folks
14:25 Raven262 Hello tenplus1
14:25 tenplus1 hi raven :P
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14:35 tenplus1 o/
14:37 tenplus1 octacian__: nice mod btw :) like the game modes
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14:37 octacian Thanks tenplus1 :D
14:38 tenplus1 would totally love game-modes in default
14:38 octacian Yeah, same here.
14:39 tenplus1 is the change immediate or does plyer have to log out and back in again ?
14:40 octacian Immediate.
14:40 tenplus1 sweet :P might add to server... the 'creative' priv typically needed player to sign out and in to set inventory :D
14:41 octacian However, to be implemented in MTG, we'd need some core changes. Specifically, in order to implement properly we'd need the ability to enable or disable damage per-player
14:42 tenplus1 should make that a player attribute like jump,sneak,gravity etc
14:43 octacian Yeah.
14:46 tenplus1 now that Freeminer has stopped development we'll have a few optimizations en route so could prolly sneak it in there... along side damage reasons
14:53 tenplus1 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5971
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15:04 tenplus1 wb ruben
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15:21 Krock hi tenplus1
15:21 Krock SWOOOSH and I gotcha
15:21 tenplus1 hi Krock, how's you ?
15:22 Krock had a long day but otherwise I'm ok :)
15:22 tenplus1 heh, kewl :0
15:22 tenplus1 am trying to psyche myself up to rewrite bags, sethome and simple skins for sfinv
15:24 Krock hmm.. I've also something on my todo list: 45° rails - but that would require a re-coding of the rail draw function
15:24 Krock 2D rails, well, could get difficult to get this efficient but I have an idea
15:24 Krock but in 3D.. with the Y axis - I believe this is going to need some more thinking time :3
15:25 tenplus1 it'll be worth the effort, I saw the advanced train mod and albeit huge with models, looks nice with the precise rails
15:26 Krock yeah, but that one most likely has a thousands of different rails, each with another rotation
15:27 Krock I had a quick look into the code and .. well it kept being a quick look as it looked so complex
15:27 tenplus1 45o vertical rails would look pretty good though...
15:27 tenplus1 brb
15:29 Krock the computing work to be done for each rail I've calculated yet (only 2d) would be 8 surrounding node lookups and about 4 bitwise operations per possible rail rotation and type
15:29 Krock but eh.. Y level must fit in somehow too
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15:34 tenplus1 hi thomas, hi behalebabo
15:34 behalebabo hello
15:34 tenplus1 o/
15:37 ThomasMonroe hi
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17:01 ThomasMonroe well i gtg for today cya tomorrow guys
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17:11 tenplus1 wb DI3HARD139
17:14 DI3HARD139 ty
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17:29 tenplus1 o.O weird article thinking that rust should replace c++ in future...  I can figure out c++ although rust confuses the crap outta me :PP
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17:43 tenplus1 hi ssieb
17:43 Krock is rust a compiler? Only a language which directly outputs machine code can beat C++ IMO
17:44 sofar rust is a compiled language
17:44 ssieb hi
17:44 tenplus1 they are trying to compare rust to c++ saying it's better at memory handling/cleanup... but any program can be written with that in mind
17:44 tenplus1 hi sofar
17:44 sofar C++ can beat rust, but you have to be a really good C++ software programmer
17:44 tenplus1 :P
17:45 sofar rust could only ever approach the performance of C++, but it will be safer by a large margin
17:46 tenplus1 it's funny how many new languages are making an appearance now that they say beats C++
17:46 sofar it's a natural evolution of programming needs
17:46 sofar by and large, many fundamental problems are already solved
17:47 tenplus1 with c++14 or the new languages themselves ?
17:47 sofar so the problems that need solving are of a higher level and underlying issues are not as important
17:47 sofar in C++ and C you waste a lot of time on fundamental issues like memory management
17:47 sofar rust removes that problem
17:47 sofar same with go, in a way
17:48 tenplus1 how about swift and D ?
17:48 sofar honestly I don't know those languages
17:48 tenplus1 wait a sec, D was released many decades ago for the Amiga... was a kinda easier version of C
17:49 red-001 now could someone make a compiled version of C#>
17:49 sofar a lot of languages are only a minor step up from C/C++ and are therefore never going to be mainstream
17:49 red-001 *?
17:49 tenplus1 yeah...   hi red
17:49 red-001 hi 11
17:49 sofar since they don't solve any new significant hurdles, only minor ones
17:50 red-001 or is the plus a concat?
17:50 red-001 in that case hi 101
17:50 tenplus1 prolly jsut as well sticking with C in that case...
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17:50 sofar if you mean C/C++ yes, those 2 will be around for very long
17:51 tenplus1 wb paramat
17:51 tenplus1 cant they add compiler options for memory cleaning/optimizations etc for all the new stuff
17:52 sofar the language can't just do that, it would violate it's own rules so to speak
17:52 tenplus1 hrmmmm... lol
17:53 sofar the optimizations are all there, at my work we have teams of people making sure that software gets optimized to used the latest Intel CPU features every year
17:54 tenplus1 sweet...
17:55 sofar moving to rust also has security implications
17:55 sofar it becomes almost impossible to maintain security in separate teams with rust
17:56 sofar since dynamic linking is not a rust thing
17:56 tenplus1 so it's missing certain features
17:56 sofar you can do dynamic linking, but then you lose the benefit of rust again
17:56 sofar it's... not a simple choice as to what is better and what is worse
17:57 sofar it really depends on what task you need the software to perform, and what environment it executes in
17:57 tenplus1 true...  I wanna learn a new language but so maaaaaany... C++ still seems best
17:59 KaadmY C is king, but sadly it's fading
17:59 tenplus1 nooooooooooooo, also hi KaadmY
18:00 KaadmY I still try to use C for personal projects but anything that I want to release will be C++
18:00 sofar you choose the language for the project at hand
18:00 sofar not the other way around :)
18:01 sofar some projects are definitely C projects, some C++, but for some I'd pick unusual or less common languages if they make sense
18:01 sofar just look at https://github.com/minetest-tools/mtmediasrv
18:01 sofar ideal to do something like that in go or rust
18:02 sofar in that case, I know some go, so it made the most sense
18:02 sofar you totally could have done it in C++, but it would have been harder to make it secure
18:02 KaadmY Actually GO and Rust are becoming a lot more popular
18:02 KaadmY A decent amount of projects I've seen are Rust/Go now
18:02 KaadmY Some even support multiple languages
18:02 tenplus1 Go is google right ? so may become more popular the more apps they make with it
18:03 sofar Google is making 0 apps with go
18:03 KaadmY Yeah I think so
18:03 KaadmY https://golang.org/
18:03 sofar they don't use go for apps at all
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18:03 sofar it's meant for server/backend tasks, daemons, services
18:03 KaadmY Yeah it's by Google
18:03 tenplus1 really ? google apps for services (not mobile)
18:03 KaadmY Or at least the privacy policy links to Google's :P
18:04 sofar go doesn't even have a native UI library
18:05 tenplus1 that kinda sucks
18:05 sofar it's actually really difficult to write an android app in go - you'd have to basically wrap the go program in a major wrapper
18:05 sofar it's just not meant for apps
18:05 sofar maybe in the future, people are experimenting with it
18:05 tenplus1 and swift is iOS only
18:05 sofar go is fantastic for service daemons, stuff that runs on servers and VMs
18:08 tenplus1 :)
18:09 sofar it would even be a good choice for a game server backend
18:09 KaadmY I've actually looked ad Rust for game dev
18:09 sofar you could easily implement a MT server in it, for instance
18:10 tenplus1 that woulda been kewl... specific mt server
18:11 tenplus1 wonder what steam is made using
18:12 sofar C++
18:13 sofar most games are nowadays
18:13 sofar there's a lot of C# stuff too, but not AAA titles, they're almost exclusively C++
18:13 KaadmY Yeah
18:13 tenplus1 not so much the games but steam front end itself
18:13 KaadmY C++ is basically every game ever
18:13 KaadmY Unity, UE4, and Cryengine are also all C++
18:13 KaadmY And those make up a large portion of games
18:14 tenplus1 I still hate the fact that most of the steam games needs .net and visual c libs on windows to function properly
18:16 tenplus1 messes up when using wine unfortuinately
18:17 Krock <KaadmY> C++ is basically every game ever
18:17 red-001 the libs don't work in wine?
18:17 Krock basically, all but Minecraft ;)
18:17 tenplus1 ya think mt will ever be converted fully to c++
18:17 Krock there's monodevelop for Linux to run .net apps
18:17 red-001 can't you install the .net framework or does ms not allow installing that on non-windows systems?
18:18 tenplus1 it tries to block it but theres a few workarounds, but wne using steam it's difficult
18:18 red-001 I don't think they would do that since they even open sourced parts of it
18:18 sofar in linux .net is basically called 'mono'
18:18 KaadmY ^
18:18 sofar interestingly, it's also the name for a horrible disease that makes you slow and lethargic
18:19 KaadmY I thought that was the description of it?
18:19 Krock maybe the apps are like the disease
18:19 KaadmY +1
18:19 tenplus1 weird how they cant just stick to c++ with the game itself but rely on another weird runtime library to load game
18:20 red-001 C# is a nice enough language to write in I hear
18:20 KaadmY tenplus1: TBH it does make sense to have some sort of middleman language
18:20 KaadmY Just to speed up the prototyping state
18:20 tenplus1 I dunno what that is :P
18:21 Krock people only use java because they can't C sharp  (sorry, old joke)
18:21 tenplus1 lol
18:23 KaadmY Heh
18:27 tenplus1 wonder what made Proller/xyz give up on freeminer
18:27 tenplus1 good though that they allowed mt to use it's code :P
18:28 Krock who said that they give up on freeminer?
18:28 tenplus1 was mentioned the other day it wasnt being supported anymore
18:29 tenplus1 hold on, lmemmie try and find where I read it
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18:30 tenplus1 wb RobbieF
18:30 RobbieF hey tenplus1
18:31 tenplus1 bah, I cleared my chat logs... cant find who mentioned it krock
18:31 tenplus1 but I do like this:https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6144
18:33 sofar it's probably inevitable
18:33 sofar I don't think they understood the cost of a fork
18:33 tenplus1 it was a well run fork with many ideas and performance gains :) I liked it
18:34 sofar no, that's the problem
18:34 sofar each change in a fork makes it harder to maintain going forward if you want to remain compatible
18:34 Krock tenplus1, the whole programmer section of the internet knows that joke
18:34 tenplus1 which one krock
18:34 sofar the best policy of making a fork is to make the fork obsolete by merging everything back into the original tree
18:34 paramat why freeminer halted http://irc.minetest.net/minet​est-dev/2017-07-17#i_5011943
18:35 tenplus1 ah crap, that's sad... what happened ?
18:35 sofar I wonder who sent a DMCA and why
18:36 sofar if he doesn't fight it and it is a bogus DMCA, that could spell trouble
18:37 tenplus1 just checking
18:37 CWz what happened?
18:37 sofar we don't really know
18:38 tenplus1 someone made trouble for proller and had freeminer brought down
18:38 CWz from where
18:38 CWz the appstore?
18:38 tenplus1 google play
18:38 CWz Oh that could be Microsoft
18:38 tenplus1 for real ?
18:38 CWz maybe not
18:39 sofar we don't know
18:40 CWz If it is Microsoft than mostlikley they are probably only after the googleplay knockoffs. i can't see them being able to do anything to Minetest
18:41 CWz perhaps it just an enemy knock off
18:42 CWz the knock forks  fighting eachother for players won't be much of a suprise
18:43 sofar let's not assume anything
18:43 tenplus1 the knock offs have so many problems though
18:43 tenplus1 and most have ingame ads
18:43 tenplus1 but i suppose it's all down to how good they look to players
18:51 red-001 A fraudulent DMCA takedown could be considered perjury
18:52 sofar right, but it's almost impossible to fight them without getting a lawyer in the US involved in a legal defense
18:52 tenplus1 and that costs money he prolly doesnt have to spend
18:52 red-001 yeah the law is flawed like that
18:52 sofar he's not even in the US
18:52 tenplus1 that sucks...
18:53 CWz google play is a weak market anyway
18:53 red-001 it's likely not worth it for him even if there was a 100% chance of winning
18:53 tenplus1 f-droid is separate from google play, should be on there
18:53 CWz honestly with how freeminer seems to be doing, i doubt he would bother
18:54 tenplus1 cant we bring him back on-board with minetest ?  he seems a very competent programmer
18:56 paramat he can contribute if he wants, but says he has no time
18:56 tenplus1 <fingers crossed>
18:57 CWz Now you are scaring off the vampires
18:57 tenplus1 ehehe
19:02 tenplus1 sofar: did you see the issue for the tnt mod's middle node not dropping items ?
19:02 sofar that would be a bug, I wonder if it just assumes that there's TNT there
19:02 tenplus1 the tnt.boom function replaces it automatically with the blast node instead of dropping item 1st
19:03 sofar yup, that would be a bug
19:08 tenplus1 https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1825
19:15 tenplus1 we also need to change max hear distance to something other than   2*64...  calculated maybe by radius
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19:19 tenplus1 wb nrz
19:31 paramat tenplus1 there seems tobe a good reason for that though https://github.com/minetest/minetest_g​ame/issues/1825#issuecomment-313924037
19:31 paramat last point
19:31 tenplus1 I was just about to make a pull :) fixed it by adding bool
19:36 tenplus1 in fact, hold that... found a way to do it without bool :PPPPPP
19:42 tenplus1 https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/pull/1833
19:54 nerzhul flavour merged
19:55 tenplus1 flavour ?
19:56 nerzhul CSM flavour limits
19:57 tenplus1 ohhh
20:09 paramat vanilla flavour
20:18 tenplus1 seems TNT mod is a little flakey with protected areas
20:26 sofar tnt uses voxelmanips, so, it largely ignores protection I think
20:28 tenplus1 the destroy function checks protection
20:28 paramat https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/com​mit/0f7d0bfd7ab647ac61158d69176a47ec26b5dd87
20:30 tenplus1 migth have to add a protection check into the centre boom node
20:32 tenplus1 https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/pull/1833 updated
20:35 tenplus1 k, sleepy time :) nite folks
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21:25 nerzhul i hope you will enjoy the flavour heh :)
21:27 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
21:50 nerzhul good night
21:55 red-001 huh I wonder would the EFF represent an open source project unfairly DMCA'ed
22:32 Calinou red-001: why would they? they aren't the copyright holder
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