Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-07-25

| Channels | #minetest-hub index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 octacian How hard would be be to add a simple GUI to specify a specific file name, out of curiosity?
00:00 rubenwardy it's a python program which accepts a file name like this:      rubenimageuploader <filename>
00:00 rubenwardy just like any other program that can open files
00:01 rubenwardy I guess with a simple tkinter script you could do it
00:01 rubenwardy open it if no filename is provided
00:01 octacian Yeah.
00:01 octacian What is tkinter?
00:01 rubenwardy I don't need it though
00:01 octacian Like wxWidgets?
00:01 rubenwardy it's a GUI library for Python
00:01 rubenwardy it sucks, but it's part of the standard library
00:01 octacian Cross platform?
00:02 rubenwardy yes
00:02 octacian huh, What would you use for cross-platform GUI development?
00:02 rubenwardy qt/gtk probably
00:02 octacian I'm dumping Electron, was planning on using Python + wxWidgets as an alternative for cross-platform
00:03 KaadmY LOL, seems legit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeTjR5-IabY
00:03 rubenwardy wxWidgets would be better than tkinter
00:03 rubenwardy especiall
00:04 rubenwardy especially if you're familiar
00:04 Miner_48er joined #minetest-hub
00:05 octacian Not at all familiar with either wxWidgets or Python ATM
00:05 octacian Just seems to be the best choice, considering the simplicity of Python as a language
00:05 lisac hey maybe there could be a clientmod which auto uploads screenshots?
00:06 octacian I thought about that, but no auto-upload API
00:06 rubenwardy kinda out of spec
00:06 rubenwardy sort of thing an outside program should do
00:06 rubenwardy like, on a global keyboard co-ordinate
00:07 rubenwardy holy shezz
00:07 rubenwardy never before have a seen a project with 3 space indentation
00:07 rubenwardy *have I
00:08 lisac rubenwardy, what about 4 tabs?
00:08 Raven262 lisac, don't even think of sending him link to my code.
00:08 lisac :P
00:08 lisac you aren't using 4 tabs, Raven262. Sometimes you are using 1 space, sometimes 2 tabs
00:08 lisac sometimes 6 spaces
00:09 rubenwardy spaces = math.random() * 10
00:09 Raven262 Just to clarify that it was atom's, error not mine.
00:09 rubenwardy turn on invisibles
00:09 Raven262 *insert the "," in the other place
00:09 rubenwardy helps a lot
00:09 Raven262 i know
00:09 * rubenwardy uses Atom
00:09 Raven262 i just freshly installed it
00:09 Raven262 i didn't configure a thing yet
00:10 Raven262 And i opened a file in wordpad, which messed it up pretty badly.
00:11 lisac hey Raven262 why don't use use MS Word for editing lua code?
00:12 Raven262 use use?
00:12 lisac hey
00:12 lisac I should go sleep
00:12 paramat octacian "0-127 and add 128 if force place is the proper way" correct
00:12 octacian paramat: Yup, got the schematic mod working entirely
00:12 octacian Still needs a README, but no time right now
00:12 paramat but better for consistency that you ask the mod user to enter 0-255, then divide that by 2 to get 0-127
00:13 octacian hmm, Will consider updating to do that later, although I'm not too worried
00:13 octacian Just implementing a jungle biome for Eden, with my new Lupuna trees created with the schematic creator :D
00:13 * octacian is gonna copy-paste noise params and such from MTG
00:13 octacian Still don't quite understand them xD
00:16 Raven262 I used the default values for those.
00:16 Raven262 for my mod that is
00:16 Raven262 i tried to understand which one does what
00:16 Raven262 it was a waste of time
00:16 DI3HARD139 joined #minetest-hub
00:16 Raven262 now i only use sidelen and fill_ration values
00:17 Raven262 *fill_ratio
00:17 Raven262 sidelen = 8,
00:17 Raven262 fill_ratio = 0.00005 <-- This makes stuff spawn rarely i think
00:17 octacian Raven262: That's what I'm using for registering decorations
00:17 octacian using a fill ratio of 0.01 for my oak trees, works nicely
00:18 Raven262 well
00:18 Raven262 0.00005 is really rare then
00:18 Raven262 but well, those are some rare stuff that i need generated
00:18 Raven262 I hope that i'll release the mod tomorrow
00:19 octacian paramat: Is it possible to cause mountains to be lower or higher through biomes?
00:19 KaadmY octacian: don't think so
00:19 paramat not with biomes, biomes are applied after terrain generation and don't affect terrain shape at all
00:19 KaadmY Since the biomes are based on terrain height
00:20 octacian Got it.
00:20 octacian I really wish there was a way to create a biome that was either more flat or had taller mountains
00:20 paramat you'd need to edit noise params
00:20 octacian Would really make things much nicer
00:20 KaadmY Yeah
00:20 paramat hmmmm almost started something like that a few times
00:20 lisac bye comrades
00:21 paramat more MC-like where each biome affects the landscape
00:21 KaadmY It'd be nice to have each biome have `flatten_ratio` and `flatten_height` to blend terrain towards that Y height
00:21 octacian Yeah.
00:21 octacian paramat: Is there a chance of seeing something like that?
00:30 Sokomine KaadmY: sorry, no. but it's part of adventuretest as can be found on brandons github site. the most current changes to adventuretest might not be there; the screen blanking is
00:32 KaadmY Sokomine: I figure out my problem already, but thanks anyway :P
00:33 KaadmY For fullscreen HUD elements, you need `scale = {x = -100, y = -100}`, whereas I was doing `scale = -100`
00:33 Sokomine octacian: how are you handling the probabilities? how will the user input them?
00:34 octacian Sokomine: Via a formspec. User inputs the itemstack they want to change probability for, and can modify it there
00:35 paramat octacian there's always a chance but i have no interest in coding that. having biomes affect terrain is possible if everything is self-contained in a new mapgen
00:35 KaadmY *cough* carpathian *cough*
00:35 octacian paramat: So, no way to do it directly from Lua, or do I misunderstand?
00:36 KaadmY Having heightmap+biomemap access in a mapgen function from Lua would be useful
00:36 paramat but to have such a feature in a universal biome API thing would need a whole new mapgen and biome API system, huge job
00:36 KaadmY Instead of manually carving terrain with a voxel grid
00:37 paramat however hmmmm has made it possible to have multiple biome systems, we have just one now which is the non-mgv6 'biome API'
00:38 paramat octacian you can do anything you want in a lua mod, i'm talking about core code
00:38 octacian Oh
00:39 paramat a lua mapgen mod can use the biome map to alter terrain shape, but it would not be as fast and would cause lua lag for other players on a server (the usual problem with lua mapgens)
00:40 Sokomine hm, yes. mg_villages does that to a degree. it changes the land for the village to flat. the biome (in this case: surface node(s)) is kept where possible
00:40 paramat you can access the biomemap and heightmap from lua in 'on generated'
00:40 Sokomine it seems to lag more in recent versions of mt. i havn't been able to pinpoint it
00:42 lumidify joined #minetest-hub
00:43 bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub
00:57 tumeninodes left #minetest-hub
01:41 lumidify_ joined #minetest-hub
02:39 bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub
02:47 twoelk|2 joined #minetest-hub
03:10 octacian Is it possible to hide the selection box on an entity via the entity definition?
03:10 octacian Also, is it possible to smoothly set the yaw of an entity?
03:43 ssieb joined #minetest-hub
05:22 Hijiri 1) no 2) no
05:23 Hijiri for 1 you can hide the selection box if you make the collisionbox zero extent
05:23 Hijiri but I am guessing that's not what you want
05:26 nerzhul_ joined #minetest-hub
05:37 Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
07:12 tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub
07:12 tenplus1 hi folks
07:16 Raven262 Hi ten
07:16 tenplus1 hi raven :P
07:17 Raven262 I got up early today.
07:17 tenplus1 what time is it there ?
07:17 Raven262 its 9 in the morning right now
07:17 Raven262 i got up about 2 hours ago
07:17 tenplus1 not bad :P
07:18 Raven262 well, since i fell asleep somewhere at about 4
07:18 tenplus1 ouch, sleep schedule is handy...  we updated Xanadu earlier, it has all new changes and lucky blocks added now
07:18 Raven262 lol
07:18 Raven262 The screwdrivers too? xD
07:18 tenplus1 yup, and void mirror
07:19 Raven262 xD
07:19 Raven262 Well, i've been working on my new mod this morning, and i seem to be getting an error when trying to support lisac's toolranks.
07:19 Raven262 The descriptions are not updated
07:19 tenplus1 what mod ?
07:20 Raven262 Hey, its a suprise! xD
07:20 tenplus1 ooh :) am eager to hear now... ehehe
07:20 Raven262 not, really, only lisac knows about it
07:20 Raven262 Okay
07:20 Raven262 It adds amber
07:20 Raven262 and amber tools
07:20 Raven262 and stuff
07:20 tenplus1 can we trap mobs inside it :D
07:20 Raven262 Oh, yes
07:20 tenplus1 mwhehehe
07:20 Raven262 That would actually give it some use!
07:21 Raven262 xD
07:21 Raven262 But first, i'm trying to make this thing work.
07:21 tenplus1 good luck :P
07:22 Raven262 Just a question, since i used a table to register item descriptions for lisac's mod's support, how do i make it refresh the description?
07:23 Raven262 I would ask lisac, but hes asleep.
07:23 tenplus1 you gotta edit the tool metadata inside inventory to change descriptions from there on...
07:24 tenplus1 check inside his toolranks to see how that's done :D
07:25 Raven262 he did edit the metadata using the toolranks.new_afteruse
07:25 Raven262 but inside my function create_description, so its only called on registration
07:25 Raven262 i need to call it afterwards
07:26 Raven262 but i don't want to make 4 copies of it
07:26 tenplus1 doesnt toolranks hav a sort of api to register new tools and do it for you ?
07:26 Raven262 i use it
07:26 Raven262 thats it, that function
07:26 Raven262 And it works, just it doesn't refresh
07:27 tenplus1 hrm
07:27 Raven262 Actually...
07:27 Raven262 If i add after_use = after_use?
07:27 Raven262 to each item's def
07:30 Raven262 Quick lua question, how do i make the function return two outputs?
07:31 tenplus1 return a, b     and if you call function you do:    local a, b = my_function(stuff)
07:31 Raven262 okay i got it
07:31 Raven262 and i also got a full screen of toolranks related errors
07:31 Raven262 again, i messed up
07:32 tenplus1 erk
07:32 Raven262 Damn lisac and his hacky ways of solving things
07:32 tenplus1 heh
07:33 tenplus1 would be nice to have a new tool system in engine itself...
07:33 CWz joined #minetest-hub
07:33 tenplus1 one that works on tool meta instead of registered static data
07:33 tenplus1 hi cwz
07:33 Raven262 i mean really, he made a function that finds tool's type based on the description string
07:33 Raven262 and my description string is created inside the same function where i call his function
07:34 tenplus1 lol
07:34 Raven262 at the end he gets nill
07:34 tenplus1 he needs a nil check
07:34 Raven262 again, i messed up xD
07:35 tenplus1 cant you generate tools 1st before registering with his mod ?
07:35 Raven262 i can, but that gives me 4 times more code in my file
07:35 Raven262 i tried using a function to register descriptions
07:35 tenplus1 sometimes you gotta sacrifice
07:36 Raven262 nah, not this time
07:36 Raven262 this'll work
07:36 Raven262 eventually
07:36 tenplus1 :PP
07:36 Raven262 i need to make the description first, and then call his function.
07:40 Raven262 hehe i know
07:40 Raven262 he'll never see this coming
07:42 tenplus1 :P
07:43 Raven262 string.find(description, "Pickaxe") searches the description, right?
07:43 Raven262 for pickaxe
07:43 Raven262 hell, it searches the DESCRIPTION!
07:43 Raven262 I was wrong there
07:43 Raven262 well, back to work
07:43 tenplus1 hav fun :)
07:43 Raven262 xD
08:22 DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub
08:25 tenplus1 hi DS
08:28 DS-minetest hi
08:28 DI3HARD139 joined #minetest-hub
08:29 tenplus1 hi DI3HARD139
08:29 DI3HARD139 Hello tenplus1
08:29 DS-minetest imo the main menu music shouldn't stop at loading beginn
08:30 tenplus1 should keep going until on server ?
08:30 DS-minetest yes
08:31 tenplus1 would be a nice feature... game loading music :P
08:35 DI3HARD139 :P
08:35 DI3HARD139 Speaking of. Can we add elevator music to the loading screen?
08:35 * tenplus1 still wants mod/xm support
08:35 tenplus1 ehehehehe, "The Girl from Epanema" :)))0
08:36 DI3HARD139 ^
08:44 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
08:50 CWz joined #minetest-hub
08:50 octacian_ joined #minetest-hub
08:52 Raven262 I finally made this thing work.
08:53 Raven262 Though the code is really idiotic.
08:53 tenplus1 w00t!!
08:53 Raven262 but it works!
08:53 Raven262 Really, i used a for loop after the registrations and have overriden the registered tools.
08:54 Raven262 after i quit trying top place lisac's buggy registrations function inside my registration function.
08:54 Raven262 *to
08:54 tenplus1 sounds a lot of hassle...
08:54 Raven262 i'll notify lisac of his bad doings, though.
08:55 tenplus1 if you have your code on git I'd like to see :P
08:55 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
08:55 Raven262 sure, lemme upload the latest one
08:55 tenplus1 hi nrz
08:56 Raven262 https://github.com/theraven262/amber
08:56 Raven262 there
08:56 tenplus1 thx
08:57 Raven262 also, do you know if there is a way to make a string all lowercase?
08:57 Raven262 i could use it to remove one table
08:57 tenplus1 string_name:lower()
08:57 Raven262 ohh
08:57 Raven262 nice
09:01 Raven262 updated
09:02 nerzhul hi tenplus1
09:02 tenplus1 o/
09:02 nerzhul i think i found a nice optimization to do client side to improve rendering performance
09:02 nerzhul i should test the new implemtation this evening
09:02 tenplus1 ooh do tell ?
09:02 tenplus1 any performance increase would be welcome :D
09:03 nerzhul oh it's the TileSpec problem i search a solution to optimize it and i think i found a mean to reduce the memory copy, but it should test it
09:03 * tenplus1 hopes it works out
09:05 tenplus1 I like the textires raven
09:07 Darcidride joined #minetest-hub
09:08 Raven262 Hey, tenplus1, i make bad code, thats why i have to compensate with the textures :P
09:08 tenplus1 ehehe
09:08 Raven262 Thats why lisac and i are a nice development team
09:09 Raven262 we don't know a thing about each other's work
09:09 Raven262 :P
09:09 tenplus1 it just happens :P
09:10 tenplus1 http://academic.emporia.edu/abersusa/geograph.htm
09:13 Darcidride Hi
09:13 tenplus1 hi Darcidride :P
09:16 nerzhul i published a PR about optimizing some client rendering parts and mapgen parts, it's a little bit interesting on new map on release mode the map generates a little faster because i dropped a calcul caching it for various operations on VoxelArea
09:16 CWz tenplus1,  trader npc seems broken
09:17 tenplus1 in mobs redo ?
09:17 CWz yeah
09:17 CWz can get the item i traded for
09:18 tenplus1 works here
09:18 CWz hmm
09:18 tenplus1 drag item you want into selection, price appears, add payment and drag bought items into your inventory
09:18 CWz i tried that, doesn't let me place it in the inventory
09:18 tenplus1 new dev ?
09:19 tenplus1 or previous build...  am using dev made on 19th... works
09:19 CWz dev from before the weird beakage
09:19 tenplus1 same...
09:19 tenplus1 very weird... it's working ok myside... lemmie test on network
09:20 tenplus1 yep, workingo n network too... I dont get it
09:20 tenplus1 what other mods you running ?
09:20 CWz Oh wait, the server uses a stable 0.4.16
09:22 tenplus1 it uses same formspec and inventory checks from 0.4.15+ so should work...  sostrange... waht server ?
09:22 CWz Banana Land
09:23 tenplus1 connecting now, can you tp me to you when I do
09:25 tenplus1 ehehehe
09:25 CWz Thanks
09:26 tenplus1 when I get the time I'll try to make it simple like the minecraft trading setup...
09:27 CWz Could it be that some of the player inventory slots are non responsive
09:28 tenplus1 they shouldnt be... all slots are added and checked in formspec functions... I dont get why it doesnt work at times
09:28 CWz Lag maybe
09:28 tenplus1 could be... usually messes with things
09:46 DI3HARD139 joined #minetest-hub
10:27 octacian__ joined #minetest-hub
10:32 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
10:32 tenplus1 wb nrz
11:02 lisac joined #minetest-hub
11:03 tenplus1 hi lisac
11:04 lisac hey comrade
11:05 tenplus1 o/
11:06 tenplus1 players on Xanadu seemed quite happy to have new lucky blocks to play with... one didnt know what to do with the super magenta screwdriver but was happy to have it :DDDD
11:16 tenplus1 any rare items are placed in a shop and sold for mundo diamond.gold it seems :D
11:16 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
11:17 tenplus1 hi Jordach
11:17 lisac tenplus1, of course he is, players are like Ferengi
11:17 lisac trying to acquire as much as possible
11:17 tenplus1 ehehehe... yeah :D
11:17 tenplus1 the charity chests empty fast, even if they dont need the items it contains
11:18 lisac lol you could place rules of acquisition instead of server rules next 1st april
11:18 tenplus1 ahaha yeah, that's a good idea....   sad to say but I totally loved Deep Space 9 cause of Quark's bar
11:18 lisac http://memory-alpha.wikia.co​m/wiki/Rules_of_Acquisition
11:18 lisac :P
11:19 lisac hey fellow trekie!
11:19 tenplus1 ehehe, seen 'em all :D
11:19 lisac same. Twice.
11:19 lisac have you seen this FOSS game? http://smcameron.github.io/space-nerds-in-space/
11:20 tenplus1 nooo, checking
11:21 rubenwardy that website made me blind
11:21 tenplus1 yeah, not that well laid out
11:21 rubenwardy seriously though, you can make a really minimal website look nice
11:22 rubenwardy margins and contrast
11:22 tenplus1 I loved how the Grand Nagus was the little dude from Princess Bride... oh so funny
11:22 lisac rubenwardy, it looks like star trek interfaces
11:22 rubenwardy remove underlines from the navbar
11:22 rubenwardy also, unrelated: https://i.rubenwardy.com/1BLt4tEz8D.png
11:23 rubenwardy there's no links
11:24 lisac rubenwardy, http://imgur.com/eXkWwh1
11:24 rubenwardy lol
11:24 rubenwardy the things follow it have them
11:24 Shara I also get no links
11:24 rubenwardy I have a custom userContent.css though
11:24 tenplus1 hi shara
11:24 rubenwardy oh that's good
11:24 rubenwardy hey Shara
11:25 Shara I get the links searching for anything else though, it seems
11:25 Shara Hi rubenwardy :)
11:25 lisac it works fine for me, too
11:25 lisac as in, everything
11:25 rubenwardy what browser are  you using?
11:25 lisac Firefox
11:25 Shara Chrome
11:25 rubenwardy Firefox for me
11:25 Shara Location based issue then
11:25 lisac yeah you should all switch to Serbian google :P
11:26 rubenwardy yeah, we're not that far apart
11:26 Shara I still don't know any MT related people closer to me :P
11:27 rubenwardy seems like it's all the www. sites by them too: https://i.rubenwardy.com/8YCLygsqvB.png
11:27 rubenwardy so, who do people recommend for VPNs?
11:28 Shara Hmmm
11:28 lisac https://www.google.rs/
11:28 Shara Same again
11:28 lisac dat works
11:28 lisac :P
11:28 rubenwardy same again again
11:29 Shara yea, serbian doesn't fix it for me
11:29 Raven262 стварно?
11:29 lisac :(
11:29 tenplus1 fix what?
11:29 lisac tenplus1, can you google 'Private internet access'?
11:30 tenplus1 k, what am I looking for in results
11:30 rubenwardy also, unrelated: https://i.rubenwardy.com/1BLt4tEz8D.png
11:30 rubenwardy *related
11:30 rubenwardy that's the link, tenplus1 ^
11:30 tenplus1 yeah, I see that... it's 1st choice on results
11:31 rubenwardy so not just a south west thing
11:31 CWz seems alots of players seemd to join leave
11:31 rubenwardy Maybe it's a result of our Glorious Leader's internet policies
11:31 rubenwardy CWz, Android
11:31 tenplus1 lolol
11:32 * tenplus1 runs adblocker, that may help
11:32 Shara lisac: http://gingercat.tk/4amits/20170725googlepia.png
11:32 rubenwardy oh, same
11:32 rubenwardy aaah
11:32 rubenwardy links display with adblock off
11:32 CWz how come andriod minetest does that
11:32 Shara DOesn't matter which country's google I use
11:32 lisac hmm
11:33 rubenwardy Shara, adblocking?
11:33 lisac even google.com works fine here
11:33 Raven262 odd
11:33 Shara uBlock
11:33 lisac I've got ublock origin
11:33 rubenwardy same
11:33 Shara same as lisac then
11:33 Shara Hmmm
11:33 rubenwardy turning it off makes the link appear
11:33 lisac tis the best adblock
11:33 Raven262 Works without adblock, oddly.
11:34 Shara actually, the links are there for me on co.uk via FireFox
11:34 lisac Raven262, got the same issue?
11:34 Raven262 Yep
11:34 lisac no fucking way
11:34 lisac we are on same network
11:34 Raven262 But, lisac, we have same systems and same specs.
11:34 lisac it's a browser issue then.
11:34 Raven262 that^^
11:35 lisac *its treason then
11:35 lisac :P
11:35 Shara I still have AdBlock plus on firefox instead
11:35 tenplus1 ehehe
11:35 * Shara shrugs
11:35 tenplus1 ooh, adblock is kinda crappy... try uBlock Origins
11:35 * Raven262 tries Edge
11:35 Shara tenplus1: read further up :P
11:35 Shara I mostly use chrome, which does have ublock origins
11:35 Shara Just barely use FireFox, so didn't get round to changing it
11:36 tenplus1 ehe, oops
11:36 Shara Plus my FireFox has so many otherthings on it that nothing gets through anyway :P
11:36 Raven262 Did you know that you can buy ublock for edge on microsoft store?
11:36 lisac hey palpatine was actually legally elected supreme chancellor.
11:36 tenplus1 buy ???? how much
11:36 Raven262 Didn't check
11:37 lisac Jedi had actually betrayed the empire
11:37 lisac :O Jedi are the evil ones
11:37 Raven262 Err, if you google it, you'll get results in which it says that it is sold.
11:38 Raven262 if you Bing it you get the github link
11:38 Raven262 and free stuff
11:38 tenplus1 *shudder* bing
11:38 Raven262 Google has betrayed me.
11:38 tenplus1 duck duck go is handy
11:38 Raven262 Well, good that i don't use Edge anyways.
11:38 Raven262 Bing even less.
11:38 lisac when you hear in a movie a character says, 'Lemme bing it', you immediately know it is an ad
11:39 lisac but when you hear 'Google it' it is completely normal
11:39 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
11:39 tenplus1 hi thomas
11:40 ThomasMonroe hi
11:40 lisac hey thomas
11:40 ThomasMonroe hi lisac
11:53 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
11:56 tenplus1 o/ fixer
11:56 lisac greetings comrade Fixer
11:56 Fixer hi
11:56 Fixer not a comrade though
12:02 tenplus1 back laters :D
12:03 tenplus1 left #minetest-hub
12:16 CWz is it possible to check if an account has no password using the mod api
12:23 cx384 joined #minetest-hub
12:55 DS-minetest joined #minetest-hub
13:05 JordachL joined #minetest-hub
13:15 lisac Fixer, everyone is a comrade
13:19 ThomasMonroe to some extent or another
13:19 lisac yeah
13:20 lisac we need a nice communism mod, in which there are no locked chests
13:20 lisac or shops
13:21 twoelk joined #minetest-hub
13:22 ThomasMonroe thats going to be chaos
13:25 lisac Not if you allow community to imprison trolls
13:25 lisac and give the ultimate quest
13:26 lisac ex. build something
13:26 lisac you could have community vote on overseers which establish the plans for a building
13:26 lisac the others do their best to construct it, or make their own communist community, which builds another building
13:27 lisac you could also add technic to allow players to establish automation
13:27 lisac ex. build factories and use efficient energy sources.
13:28 ThomasMonroe perhaps
13:30 lisac you could have a command which votes the player to go to prison
13:30 lisac for a specified amount of time
13:30 lisac of course, if the player is alone on the server, you've got a problem
13:30 lisac um... no idea how to solve that
13:31 lisac but really, one person cannot undo the work of 50 in a short time
13:31 lisac you could also require them to read the rules first
13:31 lisac or manually grant interact
13:31 Shara If I let players vote on things on my server, I suspect I'd soon abandon my server.
13:31 lisac lol Shara you are right
13:31 lisac give a vote immunity priv
13:32 lisac /callvote xban Shara
13:32 lisac hey Windows 10 has virtual desktops
13:32 lisac didn't know that
13:32 lisac wow
13:32 Shara Heh, my own admins have banned me before :)
13:32 lisac I had my brother ban me once. We are on the same IP
13:32 Shara Hah!
13:32 lisac had to call another admin over IRC to unban us :P
13:32 lisac Raven262
13:33 Shara No IRC commands?
13:33 lisac I think it was before them
13:33 lisac not sure though
13:33 Shara Ahh
13:33 lisac it was on InchraNET
13:33 lisac huh like... 2.5 years ago
13:33 lisac wow I'm in Minetest for a long time :O
13:35 lisac We could probably use a few more player animations
13:35 lisac like, 'Point', 'Laugh', 'Swim'
13:35 lisac wait, Swim one would be awesome
13:36 Calinou swimming animations are problematic in 1×1 holes
13:36 Calinou as well as shallow flowing water
13:36 Calinou point/laugh animations don't make sense with low-detail cubic models
13:36 lisac hm
13:36 Calinou can we like… support the latest Minecraft skin format instead?
13:36 Calinou it's only been 2 years
13:36 lisac in World of Warcraft you've got emotes
13:37 lisac like, animations with a /me telling stuff
13:37 lisac /laugh /point /train /sit
13:44 Shara I'd rather see security issues taken care of myself.
13:46 lisac security issues?
13:47 shivajiva I was hoping celeron55 was going to do something about that but it seems unlikely :/
13:48 shivajiva lack of server side checking for fly and noclip in anticheat
13:49 Shara lisac: when some players can give themselves what abilities they like, it can easily spoil gameplay for other players
13:50 lisac Shara, like fly and noclip?
13:50 Shara Yes.
13:50 Shara It's not an issue on some servers, but can be a huge problem on others.
13:51 lisac that is more of an anticheat problem
13:51 lisac we need a good anticheat
13:51 lisac enforced on both client and server
13:51 lisac then just ban people cheating
13:51 lisac not just warn them
13:51 Shara That's what we're hoping.
13:51 lisac ex. moved too fast? Ban him, not just return him to the old position
13:51 lisac hmm
13:51 Shara I don't care about banning them. False positives are an issue there anyway
13:52 Shara Ideal would be that it just can't happen
13:52 Shara celeron55 seemed to have ideas, so maybe we can get an update
13:52 shivajiva the core is an engine, I hear it over and over but the engine devs expects the modders to create security mods, yet the engine doesn't perform well enough to allow it...catch 22
13:52 lisac you probably can't prevent it in an opensource game
13:53 lisac with CSM communication it wouldn't be that hard
13:53 lisac check if player is in a node server side
13:53 lisac and prevent lag clientside
13:53 lisac if the player isn't using the mod he'll still be able to walk through nodes
13:53 lisac but will get banned
13:54 nerzhul shivajiva, i'm agaist core to be just an empty engine
13:54 nerzhul against
13:54 nerzhul it was kwoelr era. Minetest is more than an engine, it's a voxel game engine with features
13:55 nerzhul if a mod is mandatory for everyone, just include in builtin or C++ core engine to have the most optimized version for everybody
13:55 Calinou lisac: automatic bans are a touchy subject
13:55 Calinou they should only be performed for stuff with basically no false positives
13:55 nerzhul CSM is not for request client features from server
13:55 lisac Calinou, kicks then?
13:55 Calinou else, have fun unbanning innocent players
13:55 Calinou lisac: doesn't really hinder cheaters
13:55 lisac and a 1 minute ban?
13:55 Shara Kicks don't fix anything.
13:56 lisac maybe report it to admins
13:56 lisac and have them manually check and ban
13:56 Calinou that's much better
13:56 lisac well that is a one mod
13:56 Shara Yes, one of the things that was discussed was a report list the admin can view
13:56 Shara So it's at least possible to identify who is worth watching more easily
13:57 Shara But there needs to be a way to make that which won't grind the server to a halt as well
13:58 shivajiva a good path finding routine instigated in the core could stop this surely? c55 seems to think it's a possibility
13:58 lisac maybe make a mod which requires players to have a forum account associated with the ingame one?
13:58 lisac to gain interact?
13:58 lisac that way if someone is banned, he can't just change IP and rejoin with a different name
13:58 Shara lisac: that's offputting to many genuine players
13:59 lisac how so? Is there any genuine player without a forum account?
13:59 Shara And if you can change IP you can just make another forum account as well...
13:59 Shara lisac: plenty of them
13:59 Shara I played for  along time myself without one
13:59 lisac don't forum accounts require an unique email?
13:59 Shara It's not like emails are hard to get either.
13:59 lisac yes, but if a server requires it, the player can easily create one
13:59 lisac it takes time is my point
13:59 lisac he can't just re log
13:59 Shara Some children won't be allowed to have their own email either
13:59 lisac he has to spend 10 or so minutes creating email and forum account
14:00 Calinou lisac: that would hinder way too many players
14:00 Calinou global account should eventually be done, but not with forums
14:00 Calinou (and should be optional, probably opt-in rather than opt-out)
14:00 Shara Calinou: full agreement from me there
14:00 Calinou lisac: catch-all emails are a thing
14:00 Calinou and repeat offenders can be really quick at creating alt identities
14:00 Calinou I figure the good ones can do it in 2-3 minutes
14:01 lisac alright then: have public servers which don't require accounts. and semi-public ones which enforce master server banlist
14:01 lisac and global accounts
14:01 Shara Which doesn't fix the issue at all.
14:01 Calinou master bans can be done too, but again, who would control the list?
14:01 lisac it might
14:01 Shara If I wanted to run a restricted server, I could whitelist
14:01 lisac in zandronum, the developers to that
14:01 lisac you report the player on the IRC channel
14:01 lisac and provide proof of offence
14:02 Calinou I've never seen a cheater on Zandronum myself
14:02 Calinou so, heh
14:02 Calinou it's not like the game is too alive now anyway
14:02 Shara No offence, but I much prefer to trust the people who actually make it their daily activity to admin servers than those who make it their daily activity to code for the game. :P
14:02 Shara Which isn't to imply devs aren't capable of that, but it's not the "thing they do" within MT. :P
14:02 Calinou anyway, global bans are problematic for a game like Minetest too
14:03 Calinou some servers do not allow griefing
14:03 Calinou some make it part of the game
14:03 Calinou some servers do allow griefing*
14:03 Shara Yup, same with things like swearing.
14:03 Shara A trust system where you can opt in to accept a ban list from certain servers that you feel are run in a comparable way to your own might be nice
14:03 Calinou source: I've played on many Minecraft servers like that
14:03 Calinou (and enjoyed it for the most part, even though it gets pretty evil at times)
14:04 Shara But I'd never want to use some kind of master ban list I have no control of
14:04 shivajiva all this is good but it puts the burden on the server admins, when it's possible to prevent the majority of cheating by checking the player position...
14:04 lisac maybe force the server to use a certain set of rules in order to allow it's bans to be master-enforced
14:05 lisac if the server doesn't enforce those rules, the bans are automatically rejected
14:05 Calinou shivajiva: sometimes, server-side checks cost too much CPU and cause lag
14:05 Shara bans are not the core issue here anyway
14:05 Calinou (especially on low-end servers/VPSes)
14:05 lisac and of course the admins still need to provide proof
14:05 Shara lisac: I don't have time to stop and show someone else proof when admining
14:06 shivajiva let's carry on bolting bells n whistles on a struggling engine...catch 22 again
14:06 octacian joined #minetest-hub
14:07 Calinou rewrite Minetest with Godot :P
14:07 shivajiva freeminer made significant gains in map reduction and lag I believe?
14:07 octacian Calinou: You know, I looked at Godot, really not a fan :P
14:08 Calinou it's *the* attempt at having a successful open source game engine, what's wrong with it?
14:08 octacian shivajiva: I gave Freeminer a try yesterday, and believe it or not, found it to be more laggy than Minetest
14:08 Shara Please don't get me started on map size issues :(
14:08 Calinou face it, all the other FOSS "engines" before sucked
14:08 octacian Calinou: True, it's not bad. Maybe I'll have to look into it more. However, porting Minetest to Godot just wouldn't be a good idea :P
14:09 lisac Calinou, I've got it installed right now. I'm not sure I like the language
14:09 lisac it is using
14:09 lisac looks like python
14:09 lisac I'm not really into python
14:09 octacian rubenwardy: How does your python uploader get the password to sftp? Or does it use key authentication?
14:10 lisac does it send it in plaintext?
14:10 lisac :P
14:10 octacian lisac: You know, Python honestly seems pretty nice. I'm planning on porting my two WIP Electron programs to Python with wxWidgets.
14:10 Calinou lisac: it's a custom language, but C# will be available in 3.0 (via Mono)
14:10 Calinou also, C++ remains an option with custom modules, or soon, GDNative
14:10 lisac wow then I'm going to use C++ :P
14:10 * lisac opens Godot
14:10 octacian lisac: Dunno, it's for uploading images to an sftp server right from your desktop. For example, rubenwardy has i.rubenwardy.com
14:11 lisac hmm
14:11 octacian ...and I am configuring i.endev.xyz rn :D
14:11 lisac I'm right now searching for a Nyan on Craigs
14:11 lisac no luck so far
14:11 Calinou lisac: if you want to use C++ right now, you need to recompile the whole engine
14:11 Calinou you won't need to in 3.0
14:11 lisac oh
14:11 lisac well that is sad :(
14:12 lisac is 3.0 coming soon?
14:12 Calinou 2-3 months
14:12 lisac what about alpha releases?
14:13 lisac oh wait its on github
14:15 Calinou you can get development builds at this link: https://bintray.com/calinou/god​ot/editor/_latestVersion#files
14:17 lisac thanks Calinou :P
14:27 lisac Calinou, I managed to get it to show a cube
14:27 lisac :P
14:28 Calinou that's very  easy
14:30 ThomasMonroe @Calinou i agree with octacian i dont really lik godot, the interface is buggy and its somewhat wierd in the way it works
14:30 Calinou the 3.0 editor has a much-better looking theme
14:30 Calinou (and you can change the colors/contrast/font easily)
14:32 lisac hm it does, but it still needs some getting used to
14:35 lisac wow it even has settings shortcuts
14:35 lisac nice
14:38 nerzhul shivajiva, i'm working on performance improvements client side these days
14:48 shivajiva good to hear nerzhul :)
14:48 nerzhul it take times but i have an optimization path in a specific problem client side
14:49 nerzhul server side ti's more complicated
14:49 nerzhul but i have a little mapgen/client performance improvement in voxel areas, dropping many memory copy and calculs which are useless
14:50 shivajiva I noticed you were trimming the fat on a recent pr you made
14:50 nerzhul it depend on my motivation & time
14:54 Dumbeldor nerzhul you are motived !! :D
14:54 Dumbeldor Let's go to dev minetest !
14:55 shivajiva I understand perfectly, it would be nice to have a security road map that can be progressed towards balancing performance against leaving gaps the server admin has to diligently watch for.
14:56 nerzhul for security it depend on which context but for me xban2 and more should be in core, we have a ban manager but it's not used
14:57 shivajiva yes I'd like to see that
14:57 shivajiva as a mod it has issues with the file size and serialisation
15:00 shivajiva it's too easy to damage, leaving you scrambling for a backup
15:01 ruben2 joined #minetest-hub
15:03 ruben2 thanks :)
15:04 wardyruben FWIW, I agree with having more anti-cheating measures in the engine
15:05 wardyruben and also more performance
15:05 wardyruben so look forward to seeing what happens
15:05 Shara I no longer trust xban2. I've had too many issues with it
15:05 wardyruben doesn't it corrupt quite often?
15:05 Shara Yes
15:05 octacian Wait, so wardyruben and ruben2 are the same as rubenwardy?
15:05 Shara I was restoring from back up only for it to corrupt again within a few days
15:05 twoelk actually minetest could use a lot more built in admin tools, including anticheat tools
15:06 wardyruben yes, octacian
15:06 wardyruben left my password at home aha
15:06 octacian You know, maybe if the features from xban2 were built in to the engine as suggested and saved information in the database
15:10 Shara At the moment, you end up with a crazy large text file and then it corrupts.
15:11 Shara It seems like I have to delete and start from scratch every 6 months or so, and there's also a period of disruption after doing that when previously banned people come back and try to "take revenge"
15:13 wardyruben mod storage would mitigate slightly
15:13 wardyruben but really you need a database
15:13 shivajiva ^
15:13 Shara :)
15:14 wardyruben SELECT isBanned FROM Clump INNER JOIN User ON User.clump_id = id WHERE User.username = 'foobar';
15:15 wardyruben although meh
15:16 shivajiva SELECT isBanned FROM Clump INNER JOIN User ON User.clump_id = id WHERE User.username = 'foobar' OR User.ip = 'foobar';
15:18 shivajiva needs a UUID to catch the scope though
15:18 shivajiva names and IP's are not unique to a player
15:22 RobbieF joined #minetest-hub
15:48 Krock joined #minetest-hub
15:49 Krock o/
15:49 wardyruben o/
15:49 wardyruben I'm feeling a bit odd today
15:50 Krock I see. your name is quite mixed up
15:53 Krock https://i.redd.it/dp54vbgsbpbz.png <- wardyruben
15:53 Krock as you've also found the best answer to an issue on github ;)
15:53 wardyruben ha
15:56 lisac Wanna hear a UDP joke?
15:57 lisac -tells a joke
15:57 lisac I don't get it
15:57 lisac - I don't care
15:57 lisac :P
16:00 wardyruben joined #minetest-hub
16:01 Wayward_One hi all
16:01 lisac hey Wayward_One
16:04 shivajiva o/
16:42 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
16:50 sniper570 joined #minetest-hub
16:56 benrob0329 Hello
16:56 Krock hi benrob0329
16:57 Krock lisac, would you like to hear a TCP joke?
16:57 lisac yes, I'd like to hear a TCP joke
16:58 Krock ok, I've got a TCP joke for you
16:58 lisac ok, I will hear a TCP joke
16:58 Krock are you ready to hear this joke?
16:58 lisac yes, I'm ready to hear this TCP joke
16:59 Krock Sorry, the connection was aborted. Would you like to hear a TCP joke?
16:59 lisac No thanks lol
16:59 Krock :(
16:59 shivajiva lol
16:59 lisac :P
16:59 KaadmY :D
16:59 benrob0329 ...so whats up? Aside from Lua lacking proper ways of making a database.
17:00 shivajiva see lsqlite3
17:00 Krock io.open("./text.txt", "w"):write(minetest.serialize(database))
17:00 Krock io.close()
17:00 benrob0329 that's not part of lua
17:00 benrob0329 Which is my point
17:01 shivajiva neither is luasocket but hey nobody is complaining :D
17:01 lisac why even use files for storage anymore
17:01 Krock we have ModStorage, which can be used for some purposes
17:01 lisac yeah
17:01 Krock shivajiva, just the few windows users
17:01 lisac a lot simpler then writing your own system
17:01 shivajiva muhahaha
17:01 Krock lisac, if not files - where do you >store< your data then=?
17:02 * benrob0329 mumbles about how if you had used TCP lib X instead or TCP lib Y the joke wouldn't have timed out
17:02 lisac Krock, um.. ModStorage?
17:02 lisac I mean, I don't store to files directly
17:02 benrob0329 *of
17:05 nerzhul use mod storage to store your data globally for mod and player attributes for player attributes :)
17:05 lisac y ez
17:10 cx384 joined #minetest-hub
17:12 Hijiri does mod stoprage not work on windows?
17:13 benrob0329 Hijiri: yes, mod stoprage doesnt work on windows, or linux, or Mac.
17:13 Hijiri ok, what about mod storage
17:13 benrob0329 That should work everywhere.
17:14 benrob0329 Unless the client is broke, then I give no guarantees.
17:14 Krock I'd rather not want to be broke
17:14 lisac Hi Hijiri
17:14 Hijiri oh, I was referring to what Krock said, but I guess that was talking about lsqlite3 rather than ModStoragfe
17:15 Hijiri ModStorage
17:15 Hijiri hi lisac
17:15 Krock what's ModStoragfe
17:15 Krock nvm
17:15 Hijiri actually Im about to leave
17:15 benrob0329 To take typing lessons?
17:17 KaadmY benrob0329: rekt
17:24 cx384 I have found a crazy bug. If you join with the latest dev version of minetest on an "old" server, your field of view is one block higher then it should be. Maybe someone should fix this. http://imgur.com/a/Slwf0
17:26 lisac joined #minetest-hub
17:26 Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
17:29 cx384 No backwards compatibility anymore?
17:31 Krock none for you, or any other minetest player/server owner who goes the master way towards 0.5.0
17:31 Krock you can get the backwards compat by reverting the specific commit
17:31 benrob0329 Krock: ohh, that explains it
17:31 cx384 oh ok thank you
17:32 Krock -dev isn't meant to be stable
17:33 cx384 Thats obvious.
17:33 Krock indeed, but should be said sometime
17:40 ssieb joined #minetest-hub
17:43 cx384 bb
17:49 behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
18:15 rubenwardy :3
18:17 KaadmY :3
18:24 behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
18:24 soupfly joined #minetest-hub
18:35 CWz I have solution when dumb admin use -dev for server and than complain about breakage, said admin explodes. i will work on the pullrequest right away
18:35 KaadmY Exploding players should be a thing
18:36 KaadmY I just had an idea for a really, really insanely dangerous plant
18:36 KaadmY Rare plant in caves
18:37 KaadmY When you touch it, it has sticky seeds that attach to you and hurt you by 10HP to a minimum of 1hp
18:37 KaadmY And blow a hole around you
18:37 KaadmY And you walk like 2x faster meanwhile
18:40 CWz Weird
18:40 CWz Sounds like a sunday morning
18:48 paramat joined #minetest-hub
18:57 lisac hey do you think this https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=9&amp;t=18056 mod could be added into minetest_game? I could of course clean it up
18:57 * lisac has low hopes.
19:02 paramat rightly :]
19:02 paramat tools lasting longer because they have gained levels makes no sense, or, should be an optional thing
19:03 lisac paramat, you are spending tools to repair them
19:03 paramat MTG is really trying to avoid adding unnecessary things, we don't have enough active devs, it's almost in maintenanace mode
19:03 lisac after a few repairs, they ought to get harder to break
19:05 paramat still makes no durability sense, gameplay sense yes, but there's no need to add it to MTG, MTG is mean to be the simple basics
19:05 paramat *meant
19:05 Shara It's a really nice mod, but I don't think right for MTG
19:07 paramat what people need to do is start coding new subgames instead of trying to get everything they want into MTG
19:07 lisac :( alright, a few players just commented on the thread about it
19:07 lisac hey paramat you gave me a nice idea
19:07 Shara paramat: if MTG needs more people working on it, there needs to be clearer info about what direction MTG should go and what kind of things are wanted
19:07 lisac a separate game, minetest_enchanted
19:07 lisac which adds stuff not inside MT game, but still keeping it stable and fast
19:08 lisac yeah is it even supposed to be a playable game?
19:08 lisac or just a showcase of engine functions?
19:08 lisac or maybe a base for other games?
19:08 Shara Personally I am quite happy to work on things, but I need to know the expectations and what is wanted.
19:08 rubenwardy ^
19:09 rubenwardy might just work on Pixture instead
19:09 lisac maybe paramat and other devs should write a roadmap for both minetest and minetest_game
19:09 lisac containing wanted features and the end result
19:10 lisac like, 'Add more stone uses somehow', 'Add a better anticheat system', etc.
19:10 Shara Like.. a few people, including devs, showed interest in my handholds mod for MTG inclusion before, but it's pointless me writing mods with MTG as the intended focus because the odds of them getting in seem minute.
19:10 Shara So I have to write things with the intention of them being totally seperate, and then... they may as well be totally seperate.
19:11 rubenwardy lisac, like this? https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1488
19:12 paramat oh crumbs, the 'direction of MTG' thing :] it's been discussed a lot
19:13 Shara I'd like to contribute more an dhelp more, but when even adjusting descriptions for consistency divides opinions... ouch :P
19:13 paramat MTG is still a mod base (admittedly not well designed for that) but we are adding more simple content to make it a little more satisfying to use on it's own
19:13 paramat c55 has roadmaps for MT, they're worth reading
19:14 Shara paramat: is that official, given that at least one developer has said servers should not be using MTG, (but if it's the mod base, servers need mods... and it's true that a huge number of mods depend on at least defailt...)
19:14 Shara ?*
19:15 lisac 'I don't like the definition of the time period, MTG is more like semi-fantasy anime steampunk. We also have shiny steel nodes that are certainly not medieval.'
19:15 lisac pls no anime
19:15 paramat what i wrote is not 'official' because we haven't agreed on an official purpose, but it seems to me the current situation
19:15 lisac why not postapocalyptic
19:16 lisac that would explain why the universe is all blocks
19:16 lisac and ofc the lack of mobs
19:16 Shara I want it to be  amod base, though also for it to have the ability to function as a basic game in its own right.
19:16 lisac and the existence of dungeons
19:16 lisac and mese
19:16 paramat 'servers shouldn't be using MTG' is nonsense :]
19:16 Shara All that is needed for that is the ability to turn off non-vital features
19:16 benrob0329 Offtopic: https://youtu.be/8OQtrmhpIXU
19:17 lisac benrob0329, wtf is that
19:17 benrob0329 If you have to turn of a basic gameplay feature because its too laggy, there is a problem.
19:17 benrob0329 lisac: a meme
19:18 lisac ofc
19:18 lisac why not make several different minetest_games
19:18 lisac like official subgasmes
19:18 lisac *games
19:18 lisac have a base_game
19:18 benrob0329 Because that splinters development even more
19:18 lisac hm
19:19 lisac well I don't see any other way if devs can't agree upon it's purpose.
19:19 paramat it seems quite possible MTG will be just kept simple but with additions of content (biomes, flora) because there are 'plans' for new subgames which are made to be more complete and to impress
19:20 benrob0329 Perhaps we need a proper MTG council, with which to define a roadmap
19:21 paramat yeah for example we could have very simple mobs in MTG, but only if they are optional
19:21 lisac or a senate
19:21 lisac pls call it senate
19:21 lisac :P
19:21 sofar congress
19:21 benrob0329 The Senate of Game
19:21 Shara paramat: I'd love to see more games as well, but that only works if they are also "official" games.
19:21 lisac no no, Senate
19:22 lisac so that someone can once say "I'm the senate!"
19:22 lisac and then "It's treason then!"
19:22 Shara And since MTG can barely manage more than basic mainenance, how are the devs going to oversee whole other games?
19:22 Shara maintenance*
19:23 lisac Shara, MTG isn't as complicated as engine code
19:23 paramat new subgames are not a problem with splitting dev time, because these can be made by individuals and groups who are not core devs, and that's what we want because smaller groups often produce subgames with more focus and character
19:23 Shara lisac: I am very aware.
19:23 lisac of course there needs to be someone to moderate pull requests.
19:23 lisac But no need for only MT devs to work on MTG
19:23 lisac and a lot of forum modders might want to try their hand at editing MTG, if invited
19:23 Shara paramat: but will these games be "official"/on equal footing with MTG?
19:24 lisac yeah. Will they be shipped with MT?
19:24 lisac and supported on #minetest?
19:24 paramat we have asked for new subgames to include, that will then be 'officially approved for inclusion', anyone can make them
19:25 lisac maybe we could have a subgame store
19:25 lisac and a mod store
19:25 Shara some guidance would be nice.
19:25 rubenwardy ^^
19:25 lisac ^^
19:25 Shara SInce I assume they need to differ suitably to be considered
19:25 lisac some document containing game requirements.
19:25 Shara Not requirements, but something to give an idea of what might be accepted
19:26 Shara It's hugely offputting to invest so much time in such a big project to then be told "no, this isn't what we want for an official game"
19:27 lisac a senate would help with that. Aside from voting, you could also get a rejection reason, and ability to post the game again for voting and address those issues
19:27 paramat well, c55 has stated he is hoping for subgames that are differernt from MTG, that's been the problem, most are minor variations
19:27 KaadmY paramat: well I posted Pixture, I forget what the exact response was, I think it just got stale
19:27 Shara I would love to work on a subgame, and have ideas but... by myself? That's not going to happen any time soon.
19:28 rubenwardy KaadmY, with some work Pizture would be good
19:28 Shara And then I suspect it would not be judged acceptable one way or another.
19:28 rubenwardy well, it's good currently
19:28 rubenwardy I mean good for inclusion
19:29 rubenwardy it feels quite neutral atm, needs more of a "feeling"
19:29 lisac rubenwardy, MTG feels neutral to me
19:29 rubenwardy MTG is neutral
19:29 lisac yeah
19:29 rubenwardy we don't want another MTG
19:29 lisac and pixture has a nice brown style
19:30 lisac IDK, but it seems as if KaadmY actually invested a lot of time to remake all the textures.
19:30 rubenwardy Pixture feels like another MC clone, there's no world building as such
19:30 Shara I want something progression focused.
19:30 rubenwardy ^
19:30 lisac it might be missing some story, okay.
19:30 Shara I started mapping requirements for a game about a year ago.
19:30 sofar no offense to kaadmy/etc, but pixture looks like a disaster
19:30 Shara But I simply don't have the time (or possibly the coding skill either quite yet)
19:30 Raven262 Did any of you try Lord Of The Test? Thats a nice subgame.
19:31 sofar 500 shades of poop
19:31 benrob0329 But you have to remember, MT aint gonna host a Skyrim port.
19:31 KaadmY sofar: in what way?
19:31 sofar graphical style
19:31 lisac benrob0329, no you probably can't have PvE or PvP progression
19:31 Shara But what I wanted was progression focused, with actual reasons to visit/find different biome types and so on
19:31 lisac but you could have exploring progression
19:31 lisac with dungeons hiding treasures like craft recipes
19:31 lisac and being unable to craft stuff until you get a recipe
19:32 sofar (I do like some parts of pixture's mechanics)
19:32 benrob0329 Having to look for a crafting recopy is really tedious
19:32 rubenwardy I don't really focus on graphs
19:32 rubenwardy *graphics
19:33 Shara I'd be in favour of a system where you do certain tasks or things to earn crafting recipes, but finding them randomly.. yes, tedious
19:33 benrob0329 rubenwardy: graphics can make or break a game
19:33 rubenwardy I agree
19:33 rubenwardy and think that they do need attention for a good game
19:33 rubenwardy however, game play first
19:33 Shara For example, after you craft x number of normal tools, you might learn to make better tools
19:33 rubenwardy although graphics give a feeling which may impact game play
19:33 lisac Shara, you'd of course start with common recipes, but you would find epic stuff in dungeons
19:33 lisac like special tools
19:34 Raven262 Those are RPG elements.
19:34 benrob0329 Shara: but while we can do that, we cant do other kinds of progression as easy
19:34 Raven262 And those belong in its own sugbame.
19:34 Raven262 *subgame
19:34 Shara benrob0329: Like I said, I started planning something over a year ago.
19:34 Shara Raven262: That's what we're talking about
19:34 Raven262 Okay
19:34 benrob0329 Like, what I find when I sit down in a new world with lets say, mesecons
19:35 benrob0329 Is all I want to do is build the mesecons, everything else is tedious and boring
19:35 benrob0329 Mining, smelting, mining some more
19:36 lisac benrob0329, we need an ultimate objective?
19:36 benrob0329 There is "progression" in the sense that I have to find and dig deeper
19:36 benrob0329 *find materials
19:36 benrob0329 But its not fun
19:36 lisac yeah, but it isn't very satisfying one
19:36 lisac right
19:36 lisac you don't have a lot of ways to die
19:36 lisac only by falling
19:36 lisac or maybe buring
19:36 lisac *burning
19:36 benrob0329 Which still takes my life a lot...
19:36 Shara Yet for a game called "mine" test, there is zero variation underground beyond how frequent ore is and what shape/how large the caves are
19:37 Raven262 V7 improved that quite a bit
19:37 lisac Shara, maybe the map is too big
19:37 benrob0329 Exploring the first 50 or so caves is fun, after that its pretty meh
19:37 lisac maybe if we had different realms spawn at different depths
19:37 benrob0329 And really only v6 caves do the name "mine" justice
19:37 Shara lisac: no, it's not about map size, it's about absolute lack of content underground
19:38 lisac Shara, you can hardly fill 31 000 blocks of height with content
19:38 Raven262 really?
19:38 Raven262 https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=9&amp;t=18048
19:38 Shara Filling it all isn't really the point here.
19:38 Shara Even one or two underground biomes would make a huge difference
19:39 lisac alright; we could use some underground diversity
19:39 Raven262 Also, underground mushrooms.
19:39 benrob0329 What I'd like to see is balance, right now you pretty much have to clump a bunch of mining, then a bunch of building, then a bunch of smelting, THEN joy can have fun
19:39 benrob0329 But the fun is gone, and your energy is waisted
19:40 Shara Raven262: http://rc.minetest.tv/wp-content/upl​oads/2017/03/CRL_lichen-900x563.png
19:40 benrob0329 Like with mesecons, mese is one of the rarest materials in the world!
19:40 Raven262 Caverealms, Shara?
19:40 Raven262 Or some other mod that i haven't heard of
19:40 Shara CRL, not regular caverealms
19:40 Raven262 Ah
19:40 benrob0329 So you have to do a metric crapton of mining to automate your door
19:41 benrob0329 that's not fun!
19:41 lisac railways underground would be nice
19:41 lisac like building a railway along your tunnel which can carry materials
19:41 Shara But this has gone totally offtopic anyway
19:41 Shara I'd love to work on a subgame, but cannot do it by myself even though I have a lot of ideas
19:41 lisac hm would be nice if default carts could store materials
19:42 benrob0329 Or technic, your so focused on automating everything that you never peak your head out because your in a constant loop of mine -> smelt -> get more rubber
19:42 lisac Shara, me and Raven262 might be thinking about working on a subgame
19:42 Raven262 We what? Oh, yes, maybe.
19:42 lisac if you are looking for team members. Or need some more communism.
19:42 Fixer_ joined #minetest-hub
19:43 benrob0329 We need diversity in progression, but still allowing people to do what they find fun
19:43 Raven262 Did i mention that i'm already developing a subgame?
19:43 lisac LoTT, Raven262?
19:43 Raven262 Yea
19:43 Shara Raven262: My involvement would very much depend on what the game was
19:43 Raven262 Well
19:44 Shara We'd also need to make sure we had the right skills between members of any group set up to try something
19:44 Raven262 LOTT is this: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=5578
19:44 lisac #lordofthetest
19:44 Shara I have no interest in LOTT sadly
19:45 Raven262 Heh
19:45 Shara It has to be fully unique and not based on something.
19:45 Raven262 I suppose then, its Amaz, lumidify and me.
19:45 Raven262 Alsone.
19:45 Raven262 *alone
19:45 Shara I doubt an LOTR based idea is going to get added as an official game anyway
19:46 lisac probably not. It is too big
19:46 lisac Amaz, what do you think?
19:46 Shara More about it being LOTR.
19:46 sofar anything that smells like a trademark violation avoidance is a no-no imho
19:46 Shara ^
19:46 lisac sofar, I think LotR trademark is long gone
19:46 sofar think again
19:46 Shara seriously think again
19:47 rubenwardy I doubt it has
19:47 rubenwardy why are there so little LOTR movies?
19:47 Shara It is not too difficult to be original.
19:47 rubenwardy why aren't there any TV shows?
19:48 sofar http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&​amp;state=4806%3Aqvz1jw.1.1&amp;p_search=searc​hss&amp;p_L=50&amp;BackReference=&amp;p_plural​=yes&amp;p_s_PARA1=&amp;p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA1%​24LD&amp;expr=PARA1+AND+PARA2&amp;p_s_PARA2=lo​rd+of+the+rings&amp;p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA2%24CO​MB&amp;p_op_ALL=AND&amp;a_default=search&amp;a​_search=Submit+Query&amp;a_search=Submit+Query
19:48 rubenwardy Tolkien died on September 2, 1973. Unless this law is amended, all of his works will enter the public domain in the UK on January 1, 2044.
19:48 sofar click that link
19:48 rubenwardy This search session has expired. Please start a search session again by clicking on the TRADEMARK icon, if you wish to continue.
19:48 sofar trademarks can be kept alive indefinitely
19:48 octacian_ joined #minetest-hub
19:48 lisac This search session has expired. Please start a search session again by clicking on the TRADEMARK icon, if you wish to continue.
19:48 * lisac is away
19:48 sofar I count 9 trademarks "The lord of the rings" that are active
19:48 lisac cya later
19:48 sofar actually, way more
19:49 sofar like, 30+
19:49 lumidify_ LOTT could technically just be renamed and modified a bit (changing the names of places, etc.) to turn it into a generic fantasy game :P
19:49 Shara But if anyone wants to make a serious attempt at an alternative game which isn't messing with trademarks, or wants ideas/criticism on one, let me know.
19:49 tumeninodes joined #minetest-hub
19:50 lumidify Fantasy FTW
19:50 Raven262 Yes
19:50 sofar all of those lotr trademarks are held by ONE company, too
19:51 tumeninodes Hi all. Oooooooo... game talk : )
19:51 Shara Hi tumeninodes
19:51 benrob0329 Another roubt for progression is combat
19:51 Raven262 Hi tumeninodes
19:51 benrob0329 Except..oh wait minetest lacks good combat
19:51 Shara I don't think MT can cut it there at all.
19:51 Raven262 But it is so intensive, the combat!
19:51 Raven262 The action
19:52 benrob0329 We have a mele based combat system, where you only ever use one type of weapon
19:52 Qbiq joined #minetest-hub
19:52 tumeninodes A good game..., needs a good story. A plot, goal, objective
19:52 Raven262 You can always modify it to give you lifesteal and some other rpg stuff
19:52 Raven262 the weapon i meant
19:52 benrob0329 And that weapon is disposable, and only has one attack
19:53 benrob0329 A club? You ask..no, a horrible representation of the sword
19:53 Raven262 same
19:53 Raven262 they would just look different
19:53 Raven262 they do exactly the same thing
19:54 Raven262 all of mtg weapons do the exactly same thing, and all of them also look exactly like ach other.
19:54 Raven262 *each
19:55 Shara tumeninodes: yea, I would like to work on a subgame with actual progression  of some kind but...  getting people to work with = not happening
19:55 benrob0329 The only kind of honing you can do for your skill is how you jump back and forth because we cant block either.
19:55 tumeninodes would be cool if weapons could be leveled up, via achievements
19:55 tumeninodes Shara, that seems the hardest obstacle
19:56 Raven262 leveled up: https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=9&amp;t=18056
19:56 benrob0329 Just getting better and giving each wepon its own trates and advantages would make a world of difference
19:56 benrob0329 And no, enchanting doesn't count
19:56 Raven262 Shara, I could work on textures if you really plan a subgame.
19:57 benrob0329 That is still disposable, and relies on random chance for how good the weapon is
19:57 Shara Raven262: Have any examples of textures you've done that I can look at?
19:57 lumidify The problem is, how could you make a subgame continue to be interesting? Even if you add a story, that story will eventually be done, so it would still need to be pseudo-random in some way.
19:57 Raven262 sure
19:57 Raven262 I've done some stuff for lott
19:57 Shara lumidify: that's an issue with any game at all ever
19:57 Raven262 and some texture pack that got deleted
19:57 tumeninodes Raven, yes I saw that, is a great idea
19:57 KaadmY lumidify: solution: make the gamme hard af
19:58 benrob0329 lumidify: story should inspire the mechanics, and the mechanics is what make the story
19:58 Raven262 Shara, http://i.imgur.com/aNmMu1C.png
19:58 Raven262 these are 32px though
19:58 Raven262 i do work in lower resolution too
19:58 Shara Raven262: all done from scratch?
19:58 lumidify Yes, but other games have a set end, Minetest just sort of continues.
19:58 Raven262 Yep
19:58 Shara I actually prefer 32x
19:58 Raven262 Pixel by pixel
19:58 Raven262 it took me some hours to get each done
19:58 Shara Those are pretty good
19:58 Raven262 and some tries
19:58 Raven262 Thanks
19:59 Raven262 They don't exist anymore though.
19:59 Raven262 (dd)
19:59 KaadmY Hehe
19:59 Shara ouch
19:59 KaadmY dd if=/dev/sanity of=/dev/despair
19:59 Raven262 some tools i made for lott: http://i.imgur.com/yFS7wic.png
19:59 tumeninodes lumidify, but MC does the same thing. Hence the numerous subgames and adventure maps, etc
19:59 benrob0329 lumidify: lots of story games continue, see skyrim or GTA
19:59 Shara Recreate from screenshot!!
19:59 Raven262 I would try, but i'm not sure the colours are same
20:00 Shara Doesn't matter. You can play with colours until you get soemthing you like again anyway
20:00 benrob0329 But they are fun enough that people mod and replay, or even just try for and all achievement rout
20:00 KaadmY sofar: I should also probably mention that Pixture's textures were made 2 years ago and they were literally the first pixel art I'd ever done :)
20:00 tumeninodes what is needed is..., good map makers (meaning adventure / challenge maps) minigames
20:00 lumidify I guess pseudo-random quests could keep the game sort of alive.
20:01 KaadmY But yes, they do need an overhaul
20:01 Raven262 It takes ages to make textures like that, i don't know how i let myself lose them.
20:01 tumeninodes Raven, I know your pain
20:02 KaadmY Hm I have an idea for a hardcore survivial type subgame
20:02 KaadmY It'll need a custom mapgen though
20:02 Raven262 fractal mapgen?
20:02 Raven262 xD
20:02 KaadmY No :P
20:02 KaadmY I need a gradiented mapgen
20:02 Raven262 ah
20:03 KaadmY So it's like a blend from ocean to mountain ranges
20:03 KaadmY And extends infinitely in the other axis
20:04 rubenwardy my biggest C++ project now has 64 classes (not including test ones)
20:07 tumeninodes I definitely like the idea of a game which adds progression
20:07 paramat joined #minetest-hub
20:08 Shara Well, I have ideas, but little time. That's my problem. And I don't expect anyone else to code my ideas.
20:09 tumeninodes I ran into too many ideas, with an inability to narrow them down :P So, I opted to create a version based solely on building/creative. So it can't be labeled a sub-"game"
20:10 tumeninodes although I am still keeping the ability to PvP and to add mobs when the time is right
20:10 Shara What I started mapping out was a set of custom biomes, for both ground level and underground, which would contain items that would be needed for progression
20:11 Shara Idealy I wanted a system where some biomes were difficult, even impossible, to navigate without having first created equipment from earlier/lower ranking ones
20:12 Shara So skipping multiple tiers of equipment like in MTG would become something that couldn't happen
20:12 tumeninodes your outline is how it should be
20:14 tumeninodes players become more drawn in by challenge, that is what a game is all about. They can become obsessed with beating levels
20:14 Shara I have worked in the area of world building and general outlining for how game play should work/progress on a couple of games, so do have some idea when it comes to the planning
20:15 Shara But the whole project got sort of shelved because it's too much for one person
20:16 tumeninodes I could see if it was on a time limit being too much for 1 but...
20:16 Shara MTG has a team of developers and moves really really slowly.
20:16 tumeninodes Wuzzy works alone, and has made fairly good progress
20:16 Shara And I won't pretend I'm as good a coder as any of them :P
20:18 tumeninodes But then again, any of "them" (haha) would probably be willing to help here n there, especially with someone who contributes to MT/MTG
20:19 tumeninodes in the way of advice or review, etc... solution ideas
20:19 benrob0329 tumeninodes: unfortunately that is 99% of MT sub "games"
20:19 benrob0329 Its building, and a mobs mod slapped on for good measure
20:19 Shara I don't know enough about mapgen and that's the first hurdle really
20:20 Shara But if I worked on my own idea I'd want it done properly.
20:20 tumeninodes benrob, I agree. It is because most are literally brainlocked on MTG layout
20:20 Shara And yea... I'd want to move away from MTG a lot, and that increases the time and learning needed
20:21 tumeninodes Shara, Wuzzy feels the same, which is why he chose to work alone :D It is noce to have help, sure, but... can also lead to issues with different ideas and slow things down even more
20:23 tumeninodes But, Shara..., good things take time. I think creating a subgame, for me at least, is fun, enjoyable, and a hobby because it is at my own leisure. I am in no rush. Then again, I am not looking for it to be accepted or included, etc. either
20:25 paramat best to make one because you want to, it's no loss if it isn't bundled with MT
20:25 tumeninodes I haven't even put any of it out yet on github because it's a mess. I am stripping out all aspects of crafting and sometimes run into a pandora's box situation and have to tape things back together :P
20:25 Shara I want to, but I want to do a whole lot of things.
20:25 Shara And I quite enjoy working with people
20:26 tumeninodes people suck... :P
20:26 Shara Nooo
20:26 tumeninodes hehe
20:26 Shara "Most" peopel suck :P
20:26 Shara people*
20:26 tumeninodes yes
20:26 tumeninodes and I agree with paramat
20:27 Shara It's just time. Otherwise I would.
20:27 Shara I also know my own limits.
20:28 tumeninodes Time is definitely no friend of mine either. But, I have no limits when it comes to making a mess of things... I am awesome at that
20:28 Shara I specialise as well :D
20:29 tumeninodes ha
20:29 Raven262 I myself, never make mess of things.
20:30 Raven262 Cause i always say "I'll do it later"
20:30 tumeninodes Procrastination rules
20:31 tumeninodes My gravestone will say "I'm working on it..."
20:31 Raven262 But i love this little mod that i started, for the first time i don't actually feel it to be a burden.
20:32 tumeninodes the burden usually comes when it turns into actual "work"
20:32 Raven262 Well
20:33 Raven262 I spent 4 hours coding this morning
20:33 Raven262 just to add the support for lisac's mod
20:33 Raven262 and i don't know a thing about coding
20:33 Raven262 guess that now i do.
20:34 tumeninodes cool
20:34 Raven262 There is no "desaturate" in texture grouping?
20:34 Raven262 Damn
20:34 * Raven262 is trying not to use too many resources.
20:35 Raven262 Also, yesterday i didn't know a thing about placing the schematics either, got that also.
20:35 Raven262 I like how things are slowly starting to work
20:35 Raven262 With a little patience
20:36 tumeninodes heh, I have made some pretty messed up trees playing with .mts files before I got it right
20:37 tumeninodes and I have messed up plenty of mapgen stuff as well (some with pretty cool outcomes)
20:37 Raven262 just force node replacing and make them spawn a lot, makes some messed up things.
20:37 tumeninodes haha
20:37 Raven262 well
20:38 Raven262 sidelen = 8,
20:38 Raven262 fill_ratio = 0.0001
20:38 Raven262 In other words
20:38 Raven262 I have no idea how this works
20:38 tumeninodes replacing all stone with air is interesting
20:38 Raven262 yea
20:38 Raven262 i made a server with that
20:39 Raven262 replace stone with air, and gravel blobs with stone
20:39 Raven262 instant asteroid mapgen
20:39 Raven262 :D
20:39 Raven262 I also added some nice space skybox
20:39 Raven262 and, well, it was a rather popular little server
20:39 Raven262 it was there some 3-4 days
20:39 tumeninodes just need a laser "asteroids"
20:40 tumeninodes ring ring, phonecall.. AFK
20:43 Raven262 Hmm those dungeons still spawn above the ground level
20:43 Raven262 not sure if tis intended
20:52 paramat there's a setting
20:53 paramat for 'projecting dungeons'
20:53 Raven262 i didn't know that
20:53 Raven262 well, my minetest has default settings
20:53 Raven262 i like this kind of dungeons, they look like abandoned ruins
20:54 * lisac is back, comrades.
21:08 RobbieF left #minetest-hub
21:09 tumeninodes ugh, I don't intend to sound mean but, does anyone else get annoyed by "coming soon" posts in the WIP/Mods section? :/ I don't understand the concept, why not wait until you actually have something to post?
21:10 Shara tumeninodes: They just make me less likely to view that person's topics again
21:10 twoelk raise the excitement, force self to fullfill, disguised ask for help?
21:11 tumeninodes Shara, same.
21:12 tumeninodes Hi twoelk, I guess those "might" be reasons but, not sure they are the reason used in this case
21:12 paramat often nothing appears :]
21:13 tumeninodes There was one WIP mod posted by the same person but it was just textures with nothing else. paramat, true
21:14 Shara Maybe if it was someone who is known to produce things and they posted enough concept info and asked for feedback while the polish the final version, it would be fine with me.. but then generic "coming soon" posts are... ugh
21:14 * twoelk has lots of plans for things he is not even close to get done soon
21:14 Shara while they*
21:16 tumeninodes yes, they are annoying. wasted a whole 3 seconds of my life... I feel... so empty inside now
21:16 * twoelk wonders wether he should publish some of his concept papers to push his projects forwards
21:17 tumeninodes twoelk should just make a few dozen "coming soon" posts :P
21:18 * twoelk starts counting
21:19 twoelk well if my memory doesn't fail me I might be still under half a dozen of unfullfiled promisses on the forums
21:21 tumeninodes me too... with texture packs, but I am still working on them. And at least had the basic textures done, just not too excited about making new tool textures
21:21 sofar choosing the right time to release is hard
21:21 tumeninodes although I just lost a bunch of stuff I was working on,
21:22 sofar I have a project that's been unfinished but releasable already for 4+ months I think
21:22 * sofar cringes
21:22 tumeninodes it can be but, there should at least be "something to release" once an announcement/post is made
21:23 sofar nore: you don't do a good job of guilt-tripping people to get them back on track again
21:23 sofar maybe I should delegate that responsibility to VanessaE
21:23 VanessaE ...
21:24 tumeninodes just think about all the poor, sad, crying children waiting
21:24 sofar more of an adult/older targeted project
21:24 tumeninodes same perspective
21:25 sofar making adults cry is a life goal
21:25 tumeninodes making children cry is far easier... (sometimes)
21:25 tumeninodes and more satisfying :P
21:25 twoelk well in mt if the chunk unloads the carts sort of vanish from the tracks --- so if my life unloads some activity chunks my cartloads of ideas just loose tracks quite seriously
21:25 sofar making kids laugh and adults cry is far more satisfying than making kids cry and adults laugh
21:26 tumeninodes I will take this into consideration
21:26 sofar not to mention beneficial to society
21:26 sofar you don't change adults by making them laugh
21:26 sofar just look at Colbert
21:26 sofar you don't change kids for the better by making them cry either
21:27 tumeninodes society would be far better off with no adults
21:27 sofar someone who says that hasn't properly adulted yet
21:27 tumeninodes just for the record, I am a kid person...
21:27 tumeninodes thpltpltplt
21:28 tumeninodes most adults today are poor examples for children
21:28 sofar no surprise that you are barely an adolescent :P
21:28 tumeninodes har
21:29 sofar alright, time to adult for me - meeting excavator and grading inspector
21:29 * sofar afks
21:29 tumeninodes my twisted humor often gives a different impression of who I am
21:29 twoelk sounds like exciting times for sofar :-P
21:31 NatedaGr8 joined #minetest-hub
21:31 * twoelk decides to drive home
21:31 twoelk left #minetest-hub
21:31 tumeninodes excavators love to "meet"
21:32 tumeninodes is off to go make some children cry
21:32 tumeninodes left #minetest-hub
21:35 octacian__ joined #minetest-hub
21:45 benrob0329 paramat: that screenshot you posted is a bad example, as it looks like the shading it coming from the lamp :PP
21:45 benrob0329 which is something i would love to have, mind you
21:47 KaadmY benrob0329: yeah, but it is an issue
21:48 benrob0329 yes, sunlight should be seperate from artificial light
21:48 benrob0329 and that would solve it
21:48 KaadmY I can't do it right now though ;(
21:48 benrob0329 and that is the problem with the solution
21:48 KaadmY Minetest's meshgen only gives enough data to find day/night (regardless of indoor-ness) and the RGB color
21:49 KaadmY And the color isn't deterministic enough to get the light level
21:49 KaadmY Since it changes with the baked AO
21:50 KaadmY I might be able to embed an artificial light factor into the day/night ratio
21:50 KaadmY Yeah right now the shader-side blue tint at night is really hacky
21:51 KaadmY It uses the vertex's color
21:51 KaadmY (R + G + B) / 3
21:51 KaadmY And even that doesn't care about outdoors
21:51 KaadmY It's just the light level
21:53 KaadmY Lemme see if I can "merge" two numbers into one
21:53 paramat added a better screenshot. it's a shame it doesn't work underground (yet)
21:53 benrob0329 indoor light that isnt shining through a window should have a warn (or cold. if its a cool white) glow to it
21:53 benrob0329 *warm
21:54 KaadmY benrob0329: right now artificial light is already *slightly* brighter than   outdoors
21:54 KaadmY I could make that yellowish, might have artifacts though
21:54 paramat obviously, underground or completely indoor areas should be unchanged from current behaviour
21:54 * benrob0329 rebuilds shading branch
21:55 benrob0329 paramat: unless fully directional shading became a thing, which would be awesome (though well beyond the current code base afaik)
21:56 paramat no please don't start recoluring lighting, we put a lot of effort into making sure it remained unchanged recently during hardware colouring changes, and even then some have noticed an undesirable change
21:57 KaadmY paramat: why is having tinted artificial light an issue?
21:57 paramat best not even hope for a new lighting system, no-one has time for unnecessary big changes
21:57 KaadmY Why does CPU and GPU have to be identical...
21:58 paramat because players and users are used to the current colouring and do not want some sickly yellow tinting or for colours to look different
21:59 paramat such as Shara
21:59 rubenwardy erm
21:59 rubenwardy graphics settings?
22:00 benrob0329 current indoor lighting already has a warm glow...
22:00 KaadmY Yay got a way to encode multiple values from 0-1 in a single float
22:02 paramat well settings sure, like tone mapping, but a PR that applies directional shading should not alter colours, because that is not part of the feature
22:03 Shara Would actually love to see proper coloured lighting.
22:03 Corvus_ joined #minetest-hub
22:03 Shara But I know the odds of that.
22:05 paramat yes artificial light is already warmer, colours are fine as they are
22:09 KaadmY paramat: ah, that logic makes more sense.
22:12 paramat sorry i was unclear. i mean tinted artificial light is fine 'on demand', but i'm saying don't change the colour appearence of a certain environment with a certin lighting
22:14 KaadmY Examples?
22:14 KaadmY Not sure I'm getting that idea yet
22:14 paramat i tend to be careful about colour, because during the hardware colouring PR MT colour appearence changed slightly and i had to make a fuss to make sure it was tuned to be a very close match to before
22:16 bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub
22:18 paramat erm, i'm saying, please don't change the colour of daylight or artificial light in MT (although you probably were not going to anyway), both are fine as they are and we try very hard to preserve them
22:27 paramat .. unless of course you are coding an optional shader feature that is meant to alter colours, such as tone mapping
22:28 paramat i'm referring to the colouring effect of the basic nodes shader, the basic nods shader that gets enabled when you enable the master checkbox on the settings page
22:28 paramat *nodes

| Channels | #minetest-hub index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext