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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-08-03

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:10 rdococ could it be possible in a clientside mod?
00:12 benrob0329 http://contrastrebellion.com/
00:18 Calinou whoa, today I learned one of Urban Terror's maps uses an ambient sound that's exactly the same as the "fire" one in Minetest
00:24 Calinou (ut4_raiders, for those wondering)
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00:49 VanessaE Calinou: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.ph​p?f=13&t=10091&p=286977#p286957
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04:10 sofar Calinou: many CC0 sound bites around... I've even found movies that have the same sound bites as WoW
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08:43 tenplus1 hi folks
09:29 shivajiva Good morning 11
09:29 tenplus1 hi shiva
09:29 tenplus1 :P
09:30 shivajiva lol
09:31 tenplus1 hows things?
09:35 shivajiva okay I guess, c55 has stated not to hold breath waiting for server side path finding, may take him a year, so I know where I stand :/
09:35 tenplus1 I thought it was already server side
09:36 shivajiva nowhere...this is to stop players cheating
09:36 Shara paramat tried to push for it in -dev last night
09:36 Shara response made it clear it's not a priority
09:36 tenplus1 hrm
09:36 shivajiva the thing that nobody is really bothered about, not even celeron55
09:36 Shara I find it pretty disheartening myself
09:37 shivajiva the lack of pushing security issues and letting them stagnate will see me leave this project, no doubt
09:39 Shara For me at least, servers seem to get more and more difficult to maintain, unless you are happy to run an anarchy server
09:39 shivajiva it's not that the issues are not picked up, it's what happens after they are....bit of arguing and closed PR's
09:39 tenplus1 you got pr link
09:42 Shara And before anyone just tells me to get more moderators - that isn't the issue
09:42 tenplus1 lol, am not gonna say that, I just wanna see pull request
09:42 Shara no, wasn't expecting you to Ten. You've seen how I run my servers, but it seems to be the default response any time this gets raised
09:44 shivajiva one for noclip #3894
09:49 tenplus1 I like the fast detection and reset part
09:49 tenplus1 as for fly, that's gonna be a doozy to figure
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09:50 tenplus1 hi fixer
09:52 Fixer hi
09:52 rdococ yay! the fixer!
09:53 tenplus1 hi rdococ
09:53 * rdococ needs new ideas for mOdS
09:54 * Shara has too many ideas for mods
09:54 rdococ Shara: just list a random one then :P (preferably one that I would be able to do :P)
09:54 tenplus1 ehehehe, rdococ - do the chisel mod... it adds decorative block alternatives to normal blocks with the chisel used to select decorative replacement
09:54 Shara rdococ: Not sure what your abilities are :D
09:55 rdococ tenplus1: I think there's already a circular saw mod...
09:55 rdococ Shara: true, heh
09:55 tenplus1 that cuts same blocks into shapes
09:55 tenplus1 chisel lets you replace say stone with decorative stone
09:55 Shara ENgraving tool could be nice... works on blocks already placed
09:55 tenplus1 http://www.mc-mod.net/wp-content/up​loads/2016/07/chisel-07-750x607.png
09:55 tenplus1 theres an example
09:55 rdococ eh
09:55 tenplus1 place block in upper left and it gives you selections to chisel it into :D
10:02 tenplus1 am gonna increase the suffocation damage in Xanadu so it hurts players even with good armor... that way anyone trying to noclip into solid objects without the priv will die quick :PP
10:02 Shara Problem is, to get through walls you only need less than a second
10:04 tenplus1 true :P
10:11 rdococ there's a clientside protection mod to prevent that kind of thing
10:12 tenplus1 we'll end up building so many anti-cheat checkers into the engine that it'll slow things down
10:14 * rdococ looks up the client-side lua API
10:25 rdococ hm. how to determine if the mod is being run by server/client?
10:25 tenplus1 we need settings server side to determine this and disable it
10:31 Shara It needs to be server side, and not a mod
10:31 tenplus1 +10000000000
10:33 rdococ the clientside protection mod I mentioned doesn't suffer from the same lag as the serverside protection mod, so glitching requires very fast hands and blocks that break very quickly
10:34 tenplus1 sounds good but like shara said, would need to be run from server itself onto client...
10:34 rdococ true
10:34 Shara rdococ: we can't force people to run any specific thing on their client. They are already modifying the clients to "cheat". That's the exact problem
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10:35 tenplus1 unless a server can have full control of client run mods then it's useless to me
10:35 tenplus1 hi cx384
10:35 cx384 hi
10:35 Shara and there are issues with giving that control to the server as well
10:35 tenplus1 how so ?
10:36 Shara Would you like if a server could force any code it wanted to your client?
10:36 Shara I assume it would be sandboxed anyway, but it would only take a hole somewhere for  aserver to be able to send you something malicious
10:36 rdococ the code is heavily sandboxed according to the api
10:36 tenplus1 if I wanted to push playerplus to run on client to lessen cycles on server then that's a good thing
10:36 Shara rdococ: what is a flaw is found in that at some point?
10:36 tenplus1 but if you take the piss and have client do a LOT it slows them down and they wont wanna play on your server
10:36 tenplus1 you give and take
10:36 Shara what if*
10:37 Shara Everyone thought WE was "safe" for such a long time after all... holes do get found.
10:37 Shara I'm not saying it's an outright reason not to have it, just that it's something to think about
10:38 Shara I seem to recall others made this point as well
10:45 Raven262 Hello tenplus1
10:45 Raven262 Hi Shara
10:45 tenplus1 hiraven
10:45 Shara Hi Raven262
10:45 tenplus1 brb
10:53 tenplus1 bk
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10:57 tenplus1 wb DS
10:57 DS-minetest thx
11:03 rdococ hi DS
11:04 DS-minetest hi
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11:30 tenplus1 hi Megaf
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11:34 tenplus1 hi thomas
11:34 ThomasMonroe hi
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11:37 tenplus1 hi Jordach
11:41 Megaf Hi all
11:41 * Megaf roars
11:43 * tenplus1 pours (another coffeee(
11:45 Megaf Dont you hate when you buy a broken expensive multimeter for cheap and then it works flawlessly? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4_iRB2DIW8
11:45 Megaf !title
11:45 ShadowBot Megaf: Error: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 4KB.
11:45 tenplus1 lol
11:45 Megaf EEVblog #1012 - Ebay Fluke 8842A
11:48 Megaf meh, I lost my domain name for my blog
11:48 Megaf Im fucked
11:48 tenplus1 which domain?
11:48 Megaf http://megaf.info
11:49 tenplus1 aw
11:52 Megaf I cant even complain about wordpress
11:52 Megaf they sent me an email on 22 June and another on 02 of July
11:52 Megaf and another on 12 of July
11:59 Megaf I cant believe that, it is forcing me to upgrade to premium to add my domain again
11:59 tenplus1 thats how they get you
11:59 Megaf I already fucking paid again the renewal of my domain using the link on my email
12:00 tenplus1 your in the right, log dates and payment and contact them with that, I bet they'll fix it soon enough
12:03 Megaf and why the heck when I click "Contact us" it goes to ask in the forums!?
12:04 tenplus1 sounds like a scam
12:05 Megaf "We care about your happiness!
12:05 Megaf They don't call us Happiness Engineers for nothing. If you need help, we're here for you!"
12:05 Megaf still dont know how to reach them
12:05 Megaf just the public forums
12:06 Jordach Megaf, just fucking transfer the control to another registrar
12:07 Megaf Jordach, my resgistrar is another one
12:07 Megaf but in order to cname or a record your own domain in a wordpress.com account you have to pay wordpress and annual fee
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12:17 Megaf I need more coffee
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14:02 Fixer JUST ONE MORE YEAR AND YOU WILL BE NAPPY
14:02 Fixer HAPPY*
14:02 ThomasMonroe nappy?
14:03 ThomasMonroe i rarely take naps as it is
14:08 Megaf My roomate just had an epileptic attack
14:08 Megaf :(
14:09 Megaf So you guys know it it happens to anyone close to you, don't hold the person
14:09 Megaf just remove things around the person so he/she doesnt hurt himself/herself
14:09 benrob0329 Good to know, thanks
14:09 Megaf and tell them it's ok
14:10 Megaf after some time the person will come back
14:10 Megaf very confused
14:10 Fixer Megaf: and smth about mouth iirc
14:10 Megaf so you and the person just have to stay calm
14:10 Megaf forget the mouth
14:10 Megaf just keep the person on his side
14:11 Fixer i've seen that too
14:11 Fixer IRL
14:11 Megaf dont give water or anything, just stay beside the person and show that everything is ok
14:11 Megaf maybe as somebody else to calmly call emergency
14:11 Fixer person with that problem I seen probably drinked a lot of alcohol before that
14:12 Megaf yep, too much alcohol leads to very low sugar, very low sugar can cause a convulsion
14:13 Megaf It might take a couple of hours for the person to come back and recover, maybe less maybe more, in this time, dont try to talk to much,
14:13 Megaf maybe contact family
14:13 Megaf remember the person might be feeling super ashamed, embarassed and confused at the same time
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17:03 CWz i remember back in the golden days that mice had three buttons and no scroller
17:04 CWz i wonder what the middle one did
17:06 Megaf I had one of those
17:07 Megaf I had those with two buttons only, and serial
17:07 VanessaE in Unix systems it has probably always acted as "paste".
17:07 Megaf and had to reboot to make it work
17:07 Megaf but I still can feel the delay, latency of USB mice
17:07 Megaf nothing is faster than a serial/ps2 analogic mouse
17:07 VanessaE false...
17:08 VanessaE serial is limited to to 115k or so
17:08 Megaf you move it, it generates the signal instantly and sends an interrupt
17:08 Megaf in USB you OS have to keep asking, "Hey USB devices, whatcha doing?"
17:08 VanessaE you sure about that?
17:08 Megaf and then the USB mouse has to answer "Im moving to this side this much"
17:08 VanessaE last I checked, USB devices were event-driven
17:09 Megaf thats called polling interval? maybe
17:09 VanessaE only if the OS explicitly asks yeah
17:09 Megaf you can even change that the sys virtual FS to make your mouse more responsive
17:09 VanessaE but I highly doubt that's still in use today
17:10 VanessaE "A USB mouse generally emulates a PS2 mouse, except that it generates IRQs from the USB bus,"
17:11 VanessaE (that's from a wiki page for bochs, the virtual machine)
17:11 Megaf hm
17:11 Megaf but this emulation perhaps still depends on polling frequency?
17:11 VanessaE you're probably thinking of PS/2 mice
17:11 ThomasMonroe_ hey VE
17:11 VanessaE hi.
17:12 sofar so interestingly, most USB mice nowadays only send click events as an interrupt
17:12 sofar mouse movement does not send an interrupt
17:12 VanessaE plus, Megaf serial is far slower than the slowest USB speed
17:12 VanessaE as in 115 to 230kbps versus I think 1.5-ish Mbps
17:13 Megaf but what about latency? You dont need 1 gpbs to react to a signal
17:13 VanessaE the faster your serial rate, the lower the latency is going to be, by definition
17:13 Megaf I remember playing games using joysticks attached to MIDI port
17:13 Megaf even on AMD K6-2 at 233MHz
17:14 Megaf instantaneous reactions, no latency at all
17:14 VanessaE can't be "instantaneous"
17:14 Megaf same for 100% analogic mice on PS2 (not so sure in reality about serial)
17:14 Megaf and when using anything USB, I can always "feel"/perceive the latency
17:15 Megaf by the wat https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php​/mouse_polling_rate#USB_device_speed
17:15 Megaf way*
17:15 VanessaE it takes a few hundred bits to send a mouse event, so at best you could expect 1k events per second max with a serial mouse
17:15 VanessaE with a USB mouse a 1kb packet at 1.5 MB/sec means 1500 events/second
17:16 VanessaE (assuming 1k, I don't know the packet size)
17:16 VanessaE s/MB/mb/
17:16 sofar mouse events are tiny
17:16 sofar a few bytes
17:16 VanessaE right
17:16 sofar with headers and all I don't think it makes 32 bytes total
17:17 VanessaE I wasn't sure about the serial equivalent, been ages since I looked at it.
17:17 VanessaE Megaf: placebo effect :)
17:17 VanessaE or shitty drivers
17:31 CWz is PS2 mouse better or shittier than USB mouse
17:33 CWz Shittier I C
17:36 CWz Is it me or is the playerbase on VanessaE's server getting dumber by the month
17:36 VanessaE sometimes feels that way.
17:36 CWz they will all flunk out of collage for sure
17:37 CWz just like those pvp agressive guys who will grow up to be carrier criminas
17:38 CWz and those griefer will form terrorist groups
17:39 Shara Are you sure it's not the player base in general?
17:40 CWz Maybe :) i know lots of players walk into lava
17:40 Shara RC had lots of... "noisy" players last  night.
17:41 CWz probably sons and daughters of crackhead parents
17:41 Shara And the number of players who think typing "cry" will get them admin attention seems to have gone up
17:41 CWz Yup hurhurhurhur
17:41 * CWz walks into lava
17:41 * Shara strolls lemming style off a cliff
17:46 CWz Nooooo
17:46 * CWz walks after Shara
17:47 Shara cry?
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18:30 tenplus1 hi folks
18:32 ThomasMonroe_ hi
18:32 tenplus1 o/ Thomas
18:33 ThomasMonroe_ hey tenplus1 im updating the exoticores textures for lonsdaleite
18:34 tenplus1 kewl, adding anything fancy ?
18:34 ThomasMonroe_ gold trimming
18:34 tenplus1 ooh
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18:37 tenplus1 hi Megaf
18:38 soupfly joined #minetest-hub
18:40 tenplus1 s'up Bob
18:40 Bobr2 ty
18:41 Megaf LXDE is goood
18:42 tenplus1 +100 on LXDE :P
18:42 tenplus1 just updated laptop to Lubuntu 17.10
18:42 Megaf real time kernel and lxde, its a rocket
18:42 tenplus1 and I hear final release in Oct. will use kernel 4.13
18:42 Megaf not fast, but responsive
18:42 tenplus1 hehehe
18:42 Bobr2 madness thats whats up
18:42 Megaf I wish my laptop had PS2 connectors
18:43 tenplus1 you can easily get usb -> ps/2
18:43 Megaf but then latency will be the same or grater than USB mouse
18:43 Megaf wouldnt it?
18:43 tenplus1 ahh, gotcha
18:43 tenplus1 cant you tweak a setting to increase that ?
18:43 Megaf Assuming PS2 is indeed more respnsive
18:45 lisac Hey tenplus1
18:45 tenplus1 hi lisac
18:45 Bobr2 btw just a warning to server admins player going around running script hacking servers under the name as CrazyCraft
18:45 tenplus1 Mobs Redo API updated (pathfinding level2 liquid drop fixed, also few other local fixes)
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18:51 tenplus1 hi twoelk
18:51 twoelk hi
18:57 tenplus1 Megaf: Try changing the theme to ThinIce and see how much quicker gtk2 apps redraw :D
18:58 Megaf Noto Sans UI 8, beautiful with ThinIce and LXDE
18:58 tenplus1 am using Ubuntu Mono 9
19:05 tenplus1 any chance of a player setting to make player model physical = true
19:08 benrob0329 Just a heads up: I may be leaving YouTube with recent curation AI and YouTube TV news and being a Vidme Only creator
19:09 Calinou hi
19:09 tenplus1 hi Cal
19:09 tenplus1 what happened benrob ?
19:11 Calinou more work on my Quake map: https://lut.im/bjJlvEVKDs/L6JUgz19cmHSKpey.png
19:11 Calinou also, 1128 views on my video already: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6XBi4_N5YM
19:11 tenplus1 ooh
19:11 benrob0329 tenplus1: https://vid.me/vyosh
19:12 benrob0329 Google has no good plans for YouTube, and I don't want to support a platform that throws its own creators under the bus
19:12 tenplus1 gawd, youtube is only screwing themselves out of viewers
19:13 rdococ eh?
19:15 tenplus1 so much for free speech
19:20 Calinou free speech is not really a thing with today's tech megacorps :P
19:20 tenplus1 true, they have too much power
19:20 benrob0329 Vid.me FTW!
19:20 tenplus1 everyone is entitled to an opinion, no wonder so many youtube folk switch to patreon to fund their voices
19:21 tenplus1 I kinda forgot I had a vidme account :P
19:22 lisac Calinou, is that video real time rendered?
19:22 benrob0329 A lot of YTbers are joining Vidme, so that's cool
19:22 lisac and if so, on what hardware?
19:23 Calinou lisac: yes!
19:23 Calinou GTX 1080
19:23 lisac oh right, GTX 1080
19:23 tenplus1 nice
19:23 lisac nice :D
19:23 Calinou (and i7-6700K, 32 GB RAM)
19:23 tenplus1 windows or linux ?
19:23 * benrob0329 thinks about switching to AMD
19:23 Calinou Windows 10, but you can have the same visuals and performance on Linux (with the proprietary driver)
19:24 Calinou benrob0329: NVIDIA still has the technically superior cards today, but AMD's open source drivers are ok now
19:24 benrob0329 Nvidia's drivers are a huge pain, and Intel's history is...not enlightening
19:24 benrob0329 And current practices, actually
19:24 tenplus1 I think that my next desktop will have AMD/Ati installe
19:25 Calinou Intel has decent Linux drivers, they're just too slow hardware-wise
19:25 Calinou you should be happy that you can even play some 3D games with them, this used to not be the case at all!
19:25 tenplus1 lol
19:25 benrob0329 They do, but always try to bribe other companies into not using AMD processors
19:26 Calinou in 2010, it was unthinkable to run a game like Enemy Territory at 1920×1080 with everything maxed
19:26 Calinou (at 60 FPS)
19:26 tenplus1 heh
19:26 benrob0329 https://youtu.be/osSMJRyxG0k
19:26 benrob0329 For a full history of intel
19:27 benrob0329 >tenplusone upvotes 2 of your videos
19:27 benrob0329 *upvoted
19:27 tenplus1 :P
19:27 benrob0329 :D
19:28 tenplus1 ya make good videos dude :P
19:28 Calinou someone downvoted my video :'(
19:28 Calinou I used to have 0 downvotes
19:28 benrob0329 I need to work on that 100 (and 20) subscriber special :P
19:29 benrob0329 Im hoping blender 2.8 comes out so that I can use eeVee (realtime renderer)
19:29 tenplus1 ooh
19:29 Calinou Godot 3.0 can produce visuals close to Blender Eevee :P
19:29 tenplus1 Xanadu is using the new mushroom spread pull request and it's working perfectly :D
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19:29 Calinou I have 5 subscribers! :D
19:30 tenplus1 hi paramat
19:31 Shara Hi paramat
19:31 tenplus1 am watching "The Rhythm of Red Cat" again :DDD
19:31 benrob0329 Calinou: yes, but isnt as nice to animate in
19:31 benrob0329 Afaik
19:32 Calinou yes, Godot isn't made for animation
19:32 Calinou alas, it can't replace Source FilmMaker yet
19:32 * Calinou hides
19:32 tenplus1 wait, it cannot use animated entities ??
19:33 Calinou you can't move bones/etc in Godot itself
19:33 benrob0329 It can, but it cant do full animated shorts n such
19:33 benrob0329 I mean you could...buy
19:33 tenplus1 oh
19:33 benrob0329 *but
19:33 benrob0329 Itd be a pain
19:34 benrob0329 I had some work done on it, but I really need to write a script that isnt going to kill me trying to do it
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19:46 tenplus1 wb
19:48 cx384 thank you tenplus1
19:59 tenplus1 nite folks
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20:16 paramat i care about improving anticheat :] unfotunately it's an area of code i have little ability in, otherwise i would be working on it. i might ask nerzhul since he seems less busy in MT now
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20:18 Shara paramat: Thank you
20:18 Shara With this, I think any effort at all is appreciated
20:18 paramat it does matter to c55, the fact he would consider working on it at all shows that, as he 'officially' does not dev for MT anymore :]
20:19 paramat i suspect some other devs care too, but are too busy to work on MT currently
20:19 Shara I do hope someone can take a look at this
20:19 paramat nerz is good with client-network-server stuff so ..
20:22 paramat increase in bad players is probably related to rising popularity of smartphone use, it's 80% of MT clients i think
20:22 Shara I feel like the number of players in general has gone up, at least on my servers.
20:23 paramat not generalising, but on average they are probably more troublesome
20:23 Shara But the bad ones get noticed more.
20:23 Calinou the mobile Minetest port opened a can of worms :(
20:24 Shara Had all caps spam and people swearing at each other to deal with last night.
20:24 Shara Moderators pick them off fairly quickly at least :)
20:27 benrob0329 WHAT DO YOU MEAN I SHOULD STOP YELLING?
20:27 benrob0329 YELLING IS LOVE, YELLING IS LIFE!
20:28 paramat and of course smartphone users tend to be younger which is fine, but need more looking after
20:28 Shara I don't mind looking after them... I do mind all caps swearing :)
20:30 Calinou I AM MARRIED TO MY CAPS LOCK KEY
20:31 paramat I AM SITTING ON IT
20:32 sofar that must be painful
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20:41 paramat Shara you got this too i believe? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6197 anything to add?
20:42 Shara paramat: SOunds like exactly the same issue that was reported on Dark Lands
20:43 Fixer https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=ne​ws_item&px=glibc-malloc-thread-cache
20:43 paramat yeah, weird it only happens around y = 0
20:43 Shara Yes, could never figure it out exactly. On some tests at the same height it didn't happen for me.
20:44 Shara Hmm.
20:44 Shara I think this was sneak related somewhat
20:45 Shara People could free themselves once old movement was enabled
20:45 paramat we could try adjusting the collisionboxes, as they're just a little higher than a half-slab
20:46 paramat make them slightly higher
20:46 Shara I might hav e aplay around with this to try and understand it again
20:46 paramat or lower
20:46 paramat it might be similar to how walking onto a low slab under a low ceiling can trap you
20:47 Shara Testing to see if I can duplicate
20:48 paramat did your bug happen for fancy and simple beds?
20:48 Shara Just replied there, but yes
20:49 paramat just saw it, thanks
20:50 Shara I think on DL the height was -1
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20:55 Shara paramat: You can get onto the bed from the sides of the bottom, but not from the head
20:56 Shara So maybe working out why the head is different could help
20:56 paramat ok yeah
20:56 paramat the bottom has a 2-node selectionbox, the top has none
20:57 Shara The bed itself has two nodes... so six places you can try to enter from.. 5/6 get you trapped
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20:59 paramat you're testing in singleplayer 0.4.16 stable?
21:02 Shara Yes
21:03 Shara If you have old move code, you can just tap shift to free yourself.
21:04 Shara THough it seems that depends on a few things.. so even that isn't reliable
21:09 lisac hey forum mods, will you move my mod from WIP to releases? I made a post a while ago
21:09 lisac 6 days ago.
21:14 paramat confirmed, it's just like how a slab can do the same thing
21:16 benrob0329 (Offtopic) https://vid.me/eMlfl
21:16 paramat yes a slab does the same but only at the specific height
21:17 paramat snow slab too
21:38 Shara Weird that it's only at those heights...
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22:53 Fixer -- FIREFOX
22:53 Fixer 1.8gb of ram
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23:33 paramat good, found the cause, just need to decide on the best fix

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