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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-08-28

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Time Nick Message
00:08 behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
00:14 DI3HARD139 joined #minetest-hub
03:30 bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub
03:59 rdococ For Some Reason, I Imagine People Who Talk Like This Sound Like Purple Shep
05:09 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
06:04 CWz joined #minetest-hub
06:16 lisac joined #minetest-hub
08:03 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
08:41 tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub
08:41 tenplus1 hi folks
08:46 lisac hey tenplus1
08:46 lisac tenplus1, my mod is mostly finished https://github.com/lisacvuk/minetest-levels
08:46 tenplus1 hi lisac :) checking link
08:48 tenplus1 looks good :) now to make it play nice with 3d_armor
08:51 * tenplus1 hunts for XP :PPP
08:52 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
08:52 tenplus1 hi Megaf
08:53 Megaf Hello onenety two minus one
08:53 tenplus1 :P
08:54 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
08:54 tenplus1 hi nrz
08:54 Megaf You know, adult video hosting websites have the share button
08:54 tenplus1 they do ?
08:54 Megaf everyone, including me, was like, why the heck this sites have a share button
08:54 Megaf is not like we are going to share on facebook, hey grandma, look at this video I found
08:55 tenplus1 who would share that they are watching porn :PPPP lol
08:55 nerzhul hey
08:55 Megaf But man, sometimes you find some videos that are so good, so good, you really want to share them
08:56 tenplus1 ehehehehe
08:56 tenplus1 the only adult movie I watched that was worthy of sharing was a funny musical of alice in wonderland :D
08:57 tenplus1 o.O
08:57 Megaf oh boy
08:57 tenplus1 :P
08:57 Megaf I found two videos this week, on this week and one last week, they were totally worth material to share
08:58 Megaf "Your Individual Supporter role expired on 2017-08-28.  If you would like to renew your role as an Individual Supporter, please go to https://www.linuxfoundation.org/me​mbers/individual-supporter/support and click the Support Today button.  You’ll notice that updates that have been made to the program, including a lower annual cost."
08:58 Megaf already?
08:58 Megaf I think Linux years doesnt have 360 days...
08:58 tenplus1 for a second there I thought you posted the links to your +1 videos... ahahahahah
08:59 Megaf That would get me a notice here and a kick at least
09:00 tenplus1 heh
09:01 tenplus1 omgubuntu.co.uk has an article on a fully linux mobile phone with full privacy/encryption :) looks awesome, but pricey
09:01 nerzhul i think at a point i should work on minetest memory usage
09:02 nerzhul 2GB of memory usage is too big
09:02 nerzhul i suspect the node metas to be the problem
09:02 tenplus1 2gb ? my game has never reached that high unless a server has 100's of mods
09:02 nerzhul tenplus1, how many ?
09:03 tenplus1 my game sits at a happy 400mb on xanadu... the server itself is 1.5gb
09:03 Megaf tenplus1, the intro of the video you mentioned, is it very old style?
09:03 Megaf For research purposes
09:04 tenplus1 http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/08/pur​ism-librem-5-linux-phone-crowdfunding
09:04 tenplus1 Megaf: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074113/
09:05 Megaf eh, you just shared a video here
09:05 tenplus1 nope, the imdb page review :D
09:08 Megaf Im watching a non comic version
09:08 Megaf Im mean
09:08 Megaf researching
09:08 tenplus1 lol
09:08 Megaf skipping through the video
09:08 nerzhul https://twitter.com/raichoo​/status/901775641808396289
09:08 nerzhul hahah
09:08 Megaf theres actually music in there
09:09 tenplus1 lol nrz
09:09 tenplus1 yeah Megaf, it's a musical/comedy/adult movie
09:09 Megaf nerzhul, I have something for ya too, hold on
09:11 Megaf https://plus.google.com/photos/pho​to/103683575509787472991/645889729​8054742594?icm=false&iso=true
09:11 tenplus1 ahahahah
09:16 tenplus1 oss, alsa or pulse ? what you use ?
09:16 Megaf tenplus1, the video I found and watching is the same you shared the imdb page
09:17 Megaf it's quite, entertaining indeed.
09:17 Megaf In a funny way
09:17 Megaf and the image about the ALSA project is epic
09:17 tenplus1 lol::P
09:18 Megaf I'm trying to figure out how do I renew my Linux subscription...
09:18 tenplus1 if you get something worthwhile out of it then yes :)
09:20 Megaf tenplus1, I'm using mostly PulseAudio with Alsa backend
09:20 Megaf that's the default on Debian
09:21 Megaf and it's been working quite well
09:21 tenplus1 same...  only ever used alsa before but it seems firefox is pushing it as default -.-
09:21 Megaf Now and then I use Jack
09:21 Megaf but my favourite is OSS
09:21 Megaf used it back in the day, it was just perfect
09:22 Megaf nerzhul, I think you missed it. https://plus.google.com/photos/pho​to/103683575509787472991/645889729​8054742594?icm=false&iso=true
09:23 tenplus1 https://technophobeconfessions.files.wor​dpress.com/2017/07/cautionary.png?w=700
09:27 nerzhul i don't missed it, but i don't have anything to say about it
09:28 Megaf do you undestand the joke in that?
09:28 tenplus1 of course :) that's how I staerted with linux too
09:28 tenplus1 thankfully it's a lot easier to do a normal install and get things working, but back in the day... omg!!
09:29 Megaf Im in the next stage
09:29 Megaf I put the kernel to compile and soon after that I go to sleep
09:29 tenplus1 lol, automated already :) sweet
09:33 Megaf Fuck you Linux! Not even your subscription thin works well https://www.linuxfoundation.org​/membership/individual/enroll/
09:33 Megaf I renewed this thing twice already, paid 99 USD each time
09:34 Megaf in the history or purchases shows only one
09:34 Megaf I'm pretty sure is not time to renew again, but my subscription is already ended
09:34 tenplus1 eek
09:34 Megaf now, I finally found a way to renew, and the plan I had before no longer exists
09:35 Megaf now I have to get the individual and pay extra to get the email address
09:35 Megaf and nowhere shows how much is the email address
09:35 tenplus1 add an issue :PP
09:35 Megaf for the student subscription the email address is 150 USD
09:35 Megaf at least that a one time fee
09:37 Megaf https://www.linuxfoundation.org/partic​ipate/supporter/lifetime-email-add-on
09:37 Megaf If you’re currently an Individual Supporter, you have the option to purchase a Linux.com email alias for life.
09:37 Megaf One-Time Fee: $150.00
09:37 Megaf fuck them
09:37 tenplus1 if it's that much hassle to renew I'd skip it
09:37 Megaf I'm doing this only because linux.com is my email in my cv...
09:38 tenplus1 no email is worth 150 quid
09:38 Megaf they say is life time
09:38 tenplus1 would be cheaper getting a fastmail.com account
09:38 Megaf lifetime, that is, forever or as long as I keep my 49 USD/year subscription active?
09:39 Megaf tenplus1, is not even an email, is just an alias so you can receive emails there
09:39 tenplus1 noooope!
09:39 tenplus1 not worth it
09:39 Megaf you think Microsoft is bad
09:39 Megaf hat Google is Evil
09:39 Megaf Linux foundation is the worst thing there is
09:39 tenplus1 try fastmail
09:39 Megaf I need linux.com email...
09:40 Megaf all my professional contacts have as linux.com
09:40 Megaf "Sorry, you cannot purchase a Lifetime Email Add-On product at this time, because you are not an Individual Supporter."
09:40 Megaf Im fucking am!
09:41 Megaf for two years!
09:42 tenplus1 youtubekeeps recommendnig me weird channels I dont even like
09:47 tenplus1 soundsl ike they can handle supporters a lot better
09:47 tenplus1 than they currently are
09:54 Darcidride joined #minetest-hub
09:54 tenplus1 hi Darc
10:20 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
10:20 tenplus1 hi fixer
10:21 Fixer hi
10:22 lisac joined #minetest-hub
10:23 tenplus1 hi lisac
10:23 tenplus1 Lucky Blocks now has intllib support (and russian translateion added)
10:24 nore tenplus1: intllib, or the new minetest.translate? :)
10:24 tenplus1 hi nore
10:24 tenplus1 I didnt know we had minetest.translate
10:25 nore it's a new thing ;)
10:25 nore and hi all ^^
10:25 tenplus1 ooh, sounds interesting...  will it be in 0.5.0 ?
10:27 Shara Hi everyone
10:27 tenplus1 hi Shara :)
10:27 Shara Hi Ten :)
10:27 nore tenplus1: yep, well, it's already merged :)
10:28 tenplus1 kewl, will wait until 0.5.0 release then update all my mods to use it...
10:50 Raven262 Hi ten, Shara, nore
10:50 tenplus1 hi raven :P
10:50 Shara Hi Raven262 :)
11:04 CWz joined #minetest-hub
11:04 tenplus1 hi CWz
11:12 TommyTreasure joined #minetest-hub
11:12 TommyTreasure joined #minetest-hub
11:12 tenplus1 wb tommy
11:20 nerzhul tenplus1, 0.5.0 is not just a breakage compat, we have added many features, and we will continue to add many features :p
11:21 tenplus1 for now I'm on 0.4.16-dev (19th july) so i can edit mods and run xanadu without too much trouble...  once 0.5.0 is released I can switch it all up to that version
11:21 tenplus1 if we had 0.5.0-dev running alongside stable release it'd be easier fo testing/updated
11:21 tenplus1 *s
11:22 nerzhul tenplus1, yeah, 0.5.X branch will be declared as stable branch on release, but it's not before some months i think, there is many work to do on the core cleanup
11:22 tenplus1 that's ok... I can wait :0
11:22 nerzhul (and i really want a base Npc framework in core for 0.5.0)
11:23 nerzhul i think i will create a daily build server on my dedicated for testers
11:23 Calinou hi
11:23 tenplus1 same...  I wanna update everything to the new functions and remove any deprecated commands from my mods
11:23 tenplus1 hi Cal
11:23 nerzhul tenplus1, the mod API stability will be kept across 0.4 to 0.5, it's the only exception
11:24 nerzhul one missing thing, i think, is we don't have any min_ver max_ver in mods, i think we may add a such thing permitting modders to ensure players and server owners are updating mods
11:24 tenplus1 once 0.5.0 is released I'll be updating ALL of my mods to that version and urging players to update themselves
11:24 nerzhul nice :p
11:25 tenplus1 Xanadu will also be upped so that 0.5.0 minimum will be required to play...
11:27 nerzhul old clients cannot connect to 0.5.0 , now it's possible but when the protocol breakage PR will be merged, it will be finished, and we will keep the max version until release happen
11:28 tenplus1 kewl...  this will also limit the many clones in the app stores from running as well
11:28 tenplus1 ppl will be forced to use official minetest 0.5.0 to get on
11:28 nerzhul it's a side effect, but clones generally update fast, for good clones
11:28 nerzhul others will just be uninstalled from end users because it will never work
11:29 tenplus1 sounds like a good plan
11:29 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
11:29 tenplus1 hi Tommy
11:30 ThomasMonroe please dont call me that
11:30 tenplus1 okie... *Thomas
11:30 ThomasMonroe call me Tre if you want a simple name
11:32 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
11:34 tenplus1 wb Megaf
11:34 tenplus1 Farming Redo updated - added min/max light settings to api and growing routine
11:35 ThomasMonroe nice
11:35 tenplus1 time for noms :PP
11:38 tenplus1 *addition - also handles node mesh rotation for crops...  almost forgot that one
11:45 Megaf Thanks
11:49 CalebDavis joined #minetest-hub
11:51 tenplus1 hi caleb
11:51 CalebDavis hi ten
12:08 Megaf Folks, what happen to you when you are about to finish your first coffee in the morning, or soon after finishing it?
12:11 tenplus1 craving a biccie :P
12:11 nerzhul i take a shower and go working because i need money :p
12:14 IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
12:14 tenplus1 hi fussel
12:14 IhrFussel Hello tenplus1
12:20 Fixer FINISH HIM
12:23 RobbieF joined #minetest-hub
12:23 tenplus1 hi robbie
12:28 IhrFussel Shara, someone recommended me your glass pane mod and I added it :P
12:29 Shara :D
12:29 Shara Fussel, you should update abriglass too. There were a lot of changes
12:30 Wayward_One hi all
12:30 tenplus1 hi wayward
12:31 Shara Hi Wayward_One
12:32 CWz A wayward
12:36 RobbieF Hi all
12:36 RobbieF Heya tenplus1
12:36 RobbieF Did everyone have a nice weekend?
12:36 tenplus1 worked weekend, am kinda glad it's over now... ehehehe
12:36 tenplus1 hows u
12:39 ThomasMonroe_ yeah i had a nice weekend RobbieF, expected a hurricane, got light showers XD
12:40 RobbieF glad to hear it.
12:40 RobbieF heh tenplus1
12:40 RobbieF yeah I had a great weekend. Spent saturday working at the studio (deep clean in preparation for our 10th anniversary) but I enjoyed it despite the work. Yesterday we took the family to the fair, so that was great.
12:40 tenplus1 wow, 10 already
12:41 RobbieF mhmm
12:42 RobbieF so trying to make the studio look really fresh
12:42 RobbieF oh, we got new PTZ cameras too
12:42 RobbieF I haven't set them up (just arrived Friday) but one of them is on the desk
12:42 RobbieF just to test the signal
12:43 IhrFussel Shara, Done
12:43 tenplus1 ooh
12:44 RobbieF I have it uploading a picture to FTP
12:44 RobbieF thought it'd be neat to have a "live" still shot on the site when we're on the air
12:45 tenplus1 sounds good :)
12:45 RobbieF Yeah. And through the week, it serves as a supplemental surveillance camera  :D
12:45 RobbieF 'cause I can just access the photos it uploads
12:45 RobbieF so I don't have to connect to the pvr
12:45 tenplus1 neat camera :P
12:46 RobbieF sure is
12:46 RobbieF I'm hoping the PTZ will be nice for on-air so we can zoom in and pan around as needed
12:47 tenplus1 just make sure there's no back door for the NSA to get in :D
12:47 RobbieF haha
12:47 RobbieF I don't have it open to the world
12:48 RobbieF hence, the FTP action
12:48 RobbieF ie, it *sends* the pictures... people don't connect in to see them.
12:48 RobbieF the interface itself will be LAN only
12:53 IhrFussel Dang my map is 15 GB now...how small can I get it with zip?
12:54 IhrFussel I use Google Drive as cloud service for my world so 15 GB is cap
12:54 tenplus1 zip isnt that great, try 7zip
12:55 IhrFussel I'm trying gzip right now, is it the same as zip?
12:56 tenplus1 see if it helps
12:56 RobbieF IhrFussel perhaps backup the map but not the rollback.sqlite file?
12:56 IhrFussel I have no rollback enabled, 15 GB is just the world map
12:57 RobbieF k
12:57 RobbieF time to upgrade your cloud storage  :)
12:57 RobbieF Dreamhost gives 50 GB for just $5 / mo
12:57 IhrFussel Nah I think as zip I can get it down to 8-10 GB I guess
12:58 RobbieF Heh
12:58 * RobbieF holds tongue about good backup practices  :)
12:58 IhrFussel Depending on how extreme I want the compression to be maybe even 5
12:58 tenplus1 eheh
12:58 tenplus1 Xanadu is around 45gb now
12:59 IhrFussel I'm trying gzip on an older 8.4 GB map backup right now and it takes pretty long already
13:00 IhrFussel WITHOUT the -9 (best) option
13:03 IhrFussel RobbieF, I already pay $30 / month for my dedi...I really don't want to have to pay more just for this service
13:03 RobbieF why not setup a raspberry pi at home and have it backup to an external drive off-site?
13:04 IhrFussel Most ISPs in Germany forbid you to use your private connection as server traffic
13:04 IhrFussel It counts as "breaking the contract"
13:05 nerzhul when you use online.net you have access to C3 and backup cost is... 0.0019 per GB if i remember :p
13:05 nerzhul per month
13:05 Fixer_ joined #minetest-hub
13:06 sfan5 IhrFussel: try tar.xz instead
13:07 IhrFussel nerzhul, I don't want another contract I already pay monthly for my home connection, phone tariff and dedi...and I don't have that much money
13:08 IhrFussel sfan5, does that mean more compressed?
13:08 sfan5 tar.xz uses LZMA which is much better than gzip
13:09 IhrFussel Ok well gzip is done with the 8.4 GB file now and shrunk it down to 3.8 ... pretty good I'd say
13:10 IhrFussel Will probably get even smaller with the --best option
13:12 IhrFussel My problem is that I NEED a cloud provider with command line interface...for Google Drive I found gdrive on github, but not many offer such a CLI upload service I think
13:12 nerzhul IhrFussel, ansible
13:12 nerzhul just use ansible for cloud orchestration
13:13 IhrFussel Since ALL my world files are on my dedi, there is 0 files on my local machine
13:13 nerzhul AWS, Azure, GCE, VMware, Netapp, etc
13:13 nerzhul all are supported
13:13 nerzhul sfan5, can you add a comment on trivial #6331 please ?
13:14 * RobbieF is running du -h to see how large our backup is at TPS
13:15 RobbieF 381 GB
13:15 tenplus1 oof!!!!
13:15 RobbieF I am able to roll any server/player/file back to any day in time.
13:15 RobbieF That is a proper backup
13:15 RobbieF And it is stored in multiple locations.
13:15 tenplus1 we only back up world/mod/player info
13:16 RobbieF TBF we do have a fair number of popular servers, too... (ie. not just one map)
13:17 RobbieF Our main backup system has a capacity of 9 TB and has dual drive fault tolerance.
13:17 tenplus1 nice...  we run a 120gb ssd and backup to an external usb3 1tb drive :D
13:17 tenplus1 using .sh script
13:17 IhrFussel Another reason to never use minetesthosting.com I think...you have no access to any backups right?
13:18 tenplus1 really ?
13:18 tenplus1 that's an essential
13:18 IhrFussel At least the free service doesn't give you any shell access I think
13:19 IhrFussel I'm collecting these reasons to warn people who are tempted to open a server there
13:20 tenplus1 good idea...  list the good and bad and let them decide if it's really what they wanna do
13:20 sfan5 minetesthosting is not for serious server hosts and this is not a problem
13:20 sfan5 it's for kids who "just" want their own server
13:21 tenplus1 hi sfan, and yeah... quick n easy... for the dedicated server owner there's way better available
13:21 IhrFussel sfan5, but that doesn't make it any better...what if those "kids" put MUCH time into it?
13:22 RobbieF can mods access any folder within the map? Ie., could we make a MOD that backs up a server?
13:22 RobbieF (for such cases)
13:23 IhrFussel Not sure if the worlds have a size cap there but you can even build something HUGE with just 100 MB data
13:23 IhrFussel RobbieF, AFAIK doing a backup during runtime is very dangerous and critical
13:23 sfan5 RobbieF: i don't think the free plan allows any mods
13:23 sfan5 like i said it's not for serious server admins
13:24 IhrFussel The free plan only has the default game I think
13:24 tenplus1 that's why we use a custom desktop to run Xanadu...  can control every aspect of server
13:24 RobbieF k
13:25 RobbieF Yeah: Us SERIOUS admins have 9 TB backup servers  ;)
13:25 tenplus1 eheheh...
13:25 IhrFussel RobbieF, but your mod idea could still work in the on_shutdown() callback...not sure if the server still does anything critical with the database in that state
13:26 RobbieF mhmm might be an idea for little servers.
13:26 tenplus1 yeah, a quick backup on shutdown would be ideal then
13:27 IhrFussel Can lua create backups? I'm guessing it needs an insecure environment
13:27 RobbieF if the mod was trusted, could it also set a schedule to automatically shutdown at a time?
13:27 tenplus1 am sure you can run os.execute commands to handle backup on_shutdown
13:28 RobbieF nice.
13:28 RobbieF in which case you can also use os.execute commands to tar.gz  :D
13:28 tenplus1 and if command./script sets the filename to time/date then it's easy to handle all backups for noobz
13:29 IhrFussel I don't think you can just run os.execute() in a mod file o.o
13:29 RobbieF I think the trickiest part would simply be getting the user access to the resulting output file
13:29 tenplus1 yeah, and not doing backups on server crash etc
13:30 tenplus1 limit to 1 per day
13:30 RobbieF mhmm
13:31 RobbieF also would have to be sure it happens based on time, not timer. Eg., if set to "24 hour" timer, a server crash would reset it to 0.
13:31 RobbieF so then backup would never happen
13:31 tenplus1 yeh
13:33 IhrFussel You could simply store the timestamp of the last backup in a file
13:36 IhrFussel Or even better: write(os.time()+86400) ... if os.time()>tsfromfile then --do another backup end
13:37 tenplus1 RobbieF: what format do you use for maps ?
13:40 twoelk joined #minetest-hub
13:40 tenplus1 hi twoelk
13:40 twoelk o/
13:43 RobbieF tenplus1 our maps are leveldb
13:44 RobbieF + rollback.sqlite
13:44 tenplus1 ahh, are those smaller/better than sql ?
13:44 RobbieF faster
13:44 RobbieF and since we run everything in RAM....
13:44 RobbieF everything's buffered and optimized for performance.
13:44 tenplus1 kewl...  we tried converting Xanadu mk.2 to leveldb but had many issues, so reverted back to sql
13:44 RobbieF swaps to the SSD only when the operation is complete.
13:45 RobbieF For example, if a user breaks a brick, then places another, then adds three more bricks, why write every operation to the disk as it occurs? What a waste of resources + drive life... instead, we wait until that player is done, and flush the entire thing to disk as needed.
13:45 RobbieF The results rather than the process
13:46 tenplus1 ooh, how'd you manage that ?
13:46 RobbieF everything is running in RAM
13:46 RobbieF fancy caching, basically
13:46 tenplus1 heh... nice
13:46 tenplus1 we only have 8gb tho... heh
13:46 RobbieF and of course, my local copy of MTSA is more sophisticated than the public copy (for now... until I can create public-ready files)
13:46 RobbieF our server has 24 GB ram
13:47 RobbieF and 2 Xeon processors
13:48 lisac joined #minetest-hub
13:48 tenplus1 wb lisac
13:52 tenplus1 nice spec Robbie, the original Xanadu was on an Intel Celeron D (2.4ghz) with 6gb... ehehehe...  gotta ask Shinji what we're running now
13:55 RobbieF wow
14:01 nerzhul RobbieF, migrate to postgresql
14:01 nerzhul tenplus1, migrate to postgresql
14:02 nerzhul postgresql 9.6
14:02 tenplus1 what are the advantages ???
14:02 nerzhul it's a real DB
14:02 nerzhul unlike sqlite3 which is cheap SQL db :p
14:02 IhrFussel RobbieF, MT doesn't write every action to disk, it writes changes to disk in certain intervals
14:02 nerzhul very robust data consistency, memory buffers
14:02 nerzhul IhrFussel, yeah, it's on each server step :p
14:03 nerzhul (if data modified)
14:03 IhrFussel nerzhul, huh? Nah I set it to 15.3 secs
14:03 tenplus1 is it faster than sql/leveldb ?
14:03 nerzhul s/sql/sqlite3
14:03 nerzhul sql is a language, sqlitE3 is the engine, and PostgreSQL is another engine :p
14:03 nerzhul PostgreSQL is faster than sqlit3 if you tune postgres correctly
14:04 tenplus1 o.O sounds complicated
14:04 IhrFussel "server_map_save_interval = 15.3" <<< unless this setting is misleading
14:04 nerzhul tune postgresql to have 512MB shared_buffer
14:04 nerzhul it should be sufficient to keep minetest indices in ram, other data will be in disk cache
14:05 tenplus1 would be nice to have a thread detailing the map formats and there main advantages/disadvantages
14:09 Wayward_One there's this: http://wiki.minetest.net/Database_backends
14:09 IhrFussel nerzhul, you are wrong: https://pastebin.com/q7hNJyhy
14:09 IhrFussel Default interval is 15 secs
14:10 tenplus1 thx wayward :P
14:10 Wayward_One np :)
14:10 nerzhul tenplus1, postgresql is for dedicated server, not personal local servers
14:10 nerzhul it's a database engine, used by Yandex for all their relational data, for example
14:10 tenplus1 Xanadu is a dedicated server
14:10 nerzhul how many memory ?
14:10 tenplus1 16gb
14:11 nerzhul okay, 16gb only for MT ?
14:11 tenplus1 yeh
14:11 nerzhul lol
14:11 nerzhul okay
14:11 tenplus1 does it use a lot more memory ?
14:11 nerzhul then PostgreSQL 9.6 + 2GB shared_buffer should be sufficient
14:11 nerzhul (shared_buffer is a postgresql configuration key)
14:11 nerzhul it uses what you want it to use
14:12 nerzhul less memory = less performance
14:12 nerzhul for a dedicated postgresql server, the general usage is 50% RAM = shared_buffer
14:12 tenplus1 what if server crashes ? does it save what's in memory
14:12 nerzhul postgresql doesn't care about client crash
14:12 nerzhul it's transactional
14:12 nerzhul it's a remote process, not in MT, MT only has client
14:13 nerzhul if no transaction, data isn't moving, then consistent
14:13 nerzhul if you are writing a transaction but commit not sent and your server crahs, transaction is aborted, no data modified
14:13 nerzhul if you crash while commit order is sent, commit will be applied and data is consistent
14:13 tenplus1 that's handy... and since it uses memory cache it's a lot faster than sql?
14:14 nerzhul yes
14:14 nerzhul + index in memory (shared_buffer) and frequent requests in memory too
14:14 tenplus1 and the database itself, is it smaller or larger than sql ?
14:14 nerzhul shared_buffer = real process usage, other is disk cache
14:15 nerzhul it should be a little bit bigger
14:15 nerzhul due to the indexes
14:15 tenplus1 gotta test it out for a while before switching... we only have 120gb ssd
14:15 nerzhul data will be equivalent, as it's the same format, but index in PG uses different format/storage and are a little bit bigger than sqlite as SQLITe use magic(x,y,z) for index, and postgresql uses x,y,z
14:17 nerzhul another point, tenplus1 with postgresql as it's an external processus, you can query and write to db while minetest is running, if needed
14:17 nerzhul it's not recommended, but possible
14:18 tenplus1 so we could essentially backup map while game is running ?
14:18 nerzhul exact
14:18 nerzhul pg_dump is transactional
14:18 nerzhul it will save the map as the exact moment you queried the backup
14:18 nerzhul pg_dump minetest | gzip > minetest.gz
14:19 nerzhul if needed, (but not any minetest server owner usage) you can also have 2 postgresql instances on multiple servers and replication
14:19 nerzhul but it's a very must have
14:21 tenplus1 :P
14:28 behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
14:28 tenplus1 wb behalebabo
14:29 behalebabo ty
14:32 RobbieF tenplus1 yes, if server crashes, everything is saved to disk safely and the server does some checks and then reloads.
14:32 tenplus1 w00t!  sounds safer than current setup... am impressed
14:32 RobbieF getting busy - so any questions for me please say my name so I see it
14:32 tenplus1 okies :P
14:32 RobbieF tenplus1 this is MTSA
14:32 RobbieF (Minetest Server Administrator)
14:33 RobbieF that's what powers all the TPS servers
14:33 RobbieF it's a multi-user server hosting environment.
14:33 tenplus1 :)
14:33 tenplus1 1 is more than enough here :DDD
14:33 RobbieF :D
14:33 RobbieF so multi-map then.
14:33 RobbieF ie., all our maps share the same binaries/system files/mods/etc.
14:34 RobbieF however, other users on the same server get their own binaries/system files/etc
14:34 RobbieF and each has its own /backup folder with its own backup as previously described.
14:34 RobbieF and of course, our servers support the Minecraft Skin Converter from our site & that's all 100% automated.
14:34 tenplus1 yeah saw that one :) nicely done webpage
14:35 RobbieF cheers
14:42 tenplus1 err... turns out we only have 8gb memory... whoops... ehehe...  running FX6300 (3.2ghz) tho
14:48 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
14:50 Megaf tenplus1, uh, no welcome back?
14:50 Megaf how sad
14:50 tenplus1 ooh sorry dude, was reading up on databases there :)
14:50 tenplus1 chat screen was covered
14:50 tenplus1 wb Megaf :PPP
15:13 behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
15:20 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
15:20 tenplus1 wb behalebabo, Fixer
15:23 Fixer ty
15:23 Megaf oh no!
15:23 tenplus1 ?
15:23 Megaf bzip2 is S I N G L E  T H R E A D!!
15:24 tenplus1 ooh, slow ?
15:24 Megaf that's such a waste of SSD and CPU cores...
15:24 tenplus1 yeh
15:24 Megaf so many MB/s left to be used
15:25 Megaf and 108% of the CPU just sitting there
15:25 Megaf actually the rest of the CPU is compiling stuff...
15:25 Megaf :)
15:25 tenplus1 heh,
15:25 Calinou xz is multi-threaded now
15:25 Megaf but my SSD still pretty much not used
15:25 Calinou bzip2 is mostly obsolete by now
15:26 Calinou xz is better, gzip is faster
15:26 Calinou bzip2 is just a "meh" compromise between both
15:26 Megaf disk write, 4 MB/s...
15:26 Calinou but you don't need it, since you can use a better compression level in gzip, or a faster compression level in xz
15:26 Megaf I used to use lzma for personal stuff
15:27 Megaf meh, I have several GB/s of IO available and bzip2 is writing stuff at 3.6 MB/s
15:27 Megaf common
15:27 Megaf Calinou, can I extract .tar.bz2 using xz?
15:27 Megaf :)
15:28 Calinou no
15:30 tenplus1 why do certain mods in minetest-mods say it has been updated within the last 24 hours when NO changes have been done since april ????
15:30 tenplus1 does it count issues/pulls as changes ?
15:32 lisac hey tenplus1 can anyone enter minetest-mods?
15:32 tenplus1 https://github.com/minetest-mods
15:32 lisac no 'Join now!' button :(
15:32 tenplus1 if you have a mod for submission you have to sign it over to the minetest-mods group
15:33 lisac oh, great. Lemme get levels mod working properly first. :D
15:34 lisac also, can we get this on Xanadu? https://github.com/lisacvuk/minetest-ignored
15:36 tenplus1 will haev to test it for a bit beforehand... make sure it plays nice with all other mods
15:36 CalebDavis joined #minetest-hub
15:36 tenplus1 wb Caleb
15:37 CalebDavis thx
15:39 CalebDavis ten what biome do you think i should add next to my subgame i already have a iceland a ice crystal forest and a frozen forest
15:39 lisac okay ten :D
15:40 tenplus1 crashes in singleplayer
15:42 tenplus1 change line:53 to -      if not players or players == 0 then
15:43 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
15:43 * tenplus1 wonders if Megaf bought a dodgy modem.router ?
15:44 Megaf just chaning font setting in hexchat
15:44 Megaf Oxygen Mono 6 now
15:45 tenplus1 gotta google that one :p never seen it
15:45 * tenplus1 uses this; https://fonts.google.com/?query=ubuntu+mono
15:49 Megaf I'm quite happy with Oxygen Mono font
15:49 tenplus1 :P
15:49 Megaf very legible, even at size 6
15:51 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
15:51 Calinou size 6 sounds minuscule
15:51 Calinou I'm using Segoe UI 11 here, and I used to use size 10 but it's a bit small
15:51 tenplus1 lisac: https://github.com/lisacvu​k/minetest-ignored/pull/1
15:52 Megaf My HexChat http://i.imgur.com/6mtVXXC.png
15:52 tenplus1 not bad, but looks busy
15:53 sfan5 your font is tiny
15:53 Megaf those huge white spaces between nicks and channels are bothering me tho
15:53 Megaf Dont know how to fix that
15:54 tenplus1 split browser/hexchat so it makes better use of horizontal space
15:55 tenplus1 thats how I do it...   chat/pcmanfm on one side, browser/console on other
15:56 Calinou my IRC (repost): https://lut.im/DmByx3Eq3E/t08VuYsCcZUufvqM.png
15:56 Calinou I might decrease the contrast a bit
15:56 Calinou it's a bit high right noxw
15:56 Calinou now*
15:56 rubenwardy how many channels are you on?
15:56 Calinou haven't counted, I'd say 50-60
15:56 tenplus1 lol
15:56 Calinou on 4 networks
15:57 rubenwardy oh, freepost
15:57 Megaf my desktop currently http://i.imgur.com/mtAdIU3.png
15:57 Megaf sfan5, fonts are not so tiny desktop wise
15:57 Calinou how do you read this?!
15:58 sfan5 those look tiny af to me
15:58 Calinou the terminal *technically* can be read, but really…
15:58 Calinou also, nice ASCII Porn
15:58 Calinou can I have some?
15:58 * Calinou hides
15:58 Megaf hah
15:59 Megaf I was wondering who would ask first
15:59 sfan5 here is how a sensible font size looks like https://a.uguu.se/WmZ3glOKClUw_Bild​schirmfoto_2017-08-28_17-58-55.png
15:59 Calinou small, but readable, yeah
16:00 Megaf I have to make up for the low resolution on a big screen
16:00 tenplus1 Ubuntu Mono 9 here, it's tidy and readable :)
16:00 Megaf 15.x" screen at 768 pixes vertical...
16:00 sfan5 Calinou: yeah that's font size 9
16:00 Calinou 15.6" 768p is an insult to society
16:01 Calinou the manufacturers making those displays should be prosecuted for blasphemy
16:01 rubenwardy my IRC client: https://i.rubenwardy.com/rd1n2UVJMT.png
16:01 Calinou I've had to use two laptops like that
16:01 sfan5 ew non-monospace
16:01 Calinou (to set them up for other people)
16:01 Calinou I use a proportional font for IRC as well… ASCII art is rare today
16:01 Calinou I can't live without colored nicks myself, though
16:01 Calinou especially since there's no avatars :P
16:01 rubenwardy I prefer colored nicks
16:02 rubenwardy however my theme is broken, so some just don't have enough contrast
16:02 Megaf [17:01:06] <Calinou> the manufacturers making those displays should be prosecuted for blasphemy
16:02 rubenwardy I should probably fix that at some point
16:02 Megaf agreed
16:02 Megaf [17:01:22] <sfan5> ew non-monospace
16:02 Megaf very much ew indeed
16:02 rubenwardy <Calinou> 15.6" 768p is an insult to society
16:02 rubenwardy agreed
16:03 rubenwardy I recently bought a new monitor
16:03 rubenwardy my old one was 19" 1366x768, new one is 23" 1080p. So much better
16:03 rubenwardy https://i.rubenwardy.com/1xyXSePwxu.jpg
16:04 rubenwardy oops
16:04 tenplus1 https://ibin.co/3YS5Uq67CU6p.jpg my current desky
16:04 Calinou I spent a lot of time making my nick color scheme, since Qt CSS doesn't accept hsl() colors, at least in my version of Quassel
16:04 Calinou so, I had to convert them to #RRGGBB one by one…
16:04 Megaf but I use larger fonts in my browser http://i.imgur.com/NWMi2mj.png
16:04 Calinou unfortunately, the colors are a tad too saturated
16:04 Calinou and it's hard to change now
16:04 Calinou (brightening the background might solve this partially)
16:05 DI3HARD139 joined #minetest-hub
16:06 tenplus1 hi DI3HARD139
16:06 rubenwardy https://i.rubenwardy.com/ulFh3Uk8Id.jpg
16:06 DI3HARD139 Hellol
16:06 DI3HARD139 Hello*
16:07 rubenwardy yay, fixed my color nicks
16:07 Megaf two screens :)
16:09 rubenwardy wish I could have 3, but my laptop doesn't support it. The VGA and HDMI sockets are too close together
16:09 Calinou I have 2 monitors on my desktop
16:09 Calinou primary (32" 1440p AMVA), secondary (24" 1080p TN), both have the same DPI
16:10 Megaf I'd say I could psychically plug two screens, one VGA and one HDMI, not sure if my hardware would support that
16:11 * Shara counts her number of screens, then hides :P
16:11 tenplus1 ehehehe
16:11 tenplus1 got 1x 24" HD screen
16:11 Shara I was going to have two... but the original one still works so... why remove it? :P
16:11 * DI3HARD139 shivers at the term 'VGA'
16:12 tenplus1 lol, old school but works :)))))
16:12 Megaf cool, you can just ctrl c an image into imgur
16:12 DI3HARD139 I have 2 as well. 1x 24" 1080p IPS Asus VZ249 and a 22" 1080p TN? Dell S2209W
16:13 Calinou I was a single-monitor user until March 2016
16:13 Calinou my life changed as I got a 2nd monitor
16:13 Calinou back then, I had two 24" 1080p TN monitors
16:13 tenplus1 and even with decent sized font its not too crowded: https://ibin.co/3YS5Uq67CU6p.jpg
16:13 Calinou better for twitch shooters, but worse for everything else
16:13 Calinou (AMVA's input lag is high)
16:13 DI3HARD139 and a 47" 1080p TN LG 47LG50 TV
16:13 Calinou (viewing angles and color accuracy are better)
16:13 Megaf Just because someone posted a screenshot of their Youtube page I will post too, I have two youtube accounts, here are my recommended videos. http://i.imgur.com/LvftucL.png
16:14 DI3HARD139 Heres the ultimate question I have for everyone. Would I be stupid to get Dell's 8K monitor?
16:14 rubenwardy would your computer handle it?
16:15 Megaf DI3HARD139, what for?
16:15 DI3HARD139 For Gaming, debatable. But for everything else then yep
16:15 rubenwardy fffas
16:15 rubenwardy ARGH
16:15 Calinou YouTube is recommending a video I made and uploaded to myself: https://lut.im/RohtzZkVXU/ILncPdIwTTNv0FMR.png
16:15 Megaf Do you really need all that resolution? The ratio size/resolution is ok? Can your computer handle it?
16:15 Calinou nice try :D
16:15 Calinou (but I uploaded it on another account)
16:16 rubenwardy I went on to youtube, and got a spoiler for last night's Game of Thrones
16:16 rubenwardy WTF Youtube
16:16 DI3HARD139 @Megaf Gaming @4k, General usage and Movies/Videos.
16:16 Calinou welcome to Game of Thrones community
16:16 rubenwardy ffffsss
16:16 rubenwardy you don't put such a spoiler in the title and thumbnail
16:16 Megaf DI3HARD139, get anything around 30" and 4k
16:16 * DI3HARD139 will only settle for Resolution and Color accuracy. Could careless about refresh rate.
16:17 rubenwardy right, that's it
16:17 rubenwardy I'm leaving the internet
16:17 DI3HARD139 What??!??!?!?
16:17 unk joined #minetest-hub
16:17 tenplus1 hi unk
16:18 unk hi tenplus1
16:20 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
16:21 paramat joined #minetest-hub
16:21 tenplus1 hi paramat, wb nrz
16:24 Megaf I would totally wear that shirt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6hQcdjcI9Y
16:27 rdococ yay
16:27 tenplus1 hi rdococ
16:30 rdococ YAY
16:30 tenplus1 ?
16:31 rdococ !
16:31 rdococ yEY
16:31 * rdococ hugs tenplus1
16:31 tenplus1 you sound quite happy today :PP
16:32 rdococ yaY
16:33 behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
16:33 tenplus1 wb behalebabo
16:34 Krock joined #minetest-hub
16:34 DI3HARD139 @rdococ Can I get some of that coffee but without the lethal substance?
16:34 DI3HARD139 :P
16:34 DI3HARD139 Hello there Krock
16:34 Krock hi DI3HARD139
16:35 Krock hi tenplus1
16:35 red-001 decaf?
16:35 tenplus1 hi Krock
16:35 tenplus1 hi red
16:35 rdococ Without the lethal substance, Rdocco Coffee would be as useless as wa--er... I mean Rdocco Coffee would be the exact same, because no such lethal substance exists! Totally!
16:35 DI3HARD139 Put extra of that substance in then :P
16:36 DI3HARD139 If it's that effective
16:36 rdococ The money we get from Rdocco Coffee is used to provide free funeral plans!
16:36 rdococ :P
16:37 * tenplus1 sips coffee
16:39 rdococ Ooh, which coffee is that?
16:39 rubenwardy screw it, I can't wait 2 hours until tea time
16:40 rubenwardy gonna make food and then watch GoT
16:40 tenplus1 L'or
16:40 tenplus1 rich & aromatic :D
16:41 * DI3HARD139 never understood why GoT is such a bit deal.
16:41 DI3HARD139 big*
16:41 tenplus1 same...  gave up after season 2
16:42 rubenwardy the first season or two is quite boring, but once you get into it and the characters are estabilished it gets better
16:42 rubenwardy waay better
16:43 * rdococ is over here, thinking: "wat is GoT?"
16:44 rubenwardy the thing I like about GoT is the politics and the relationships between characters. GRRM is some sadistic mad genius that puts all these links between characters, and symbolism
16:44 rdococ what even is GoT
16:45 rubenwardy rdococ, Game of Thrones
16:45 rdococ oh
16:45 nerzhul rubenwardy, can you answer here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5493
16:45 nerzhul i need to fix the doc point to merge it :p
16:45 rdococ NERZHUL! YAY!
16:46 rubenwardy "A fullscreen background shown behind formspecs when open"?
16:46 rubenwardy Just wanted to try and make it easier to search
16:46 rdococ YAy
16:53 Megaf Who asked about ASCII porn before again?
16:53 Megaf Calinou, ?
16:53 Megaf http://www.textfiles.com/art/ASCIIPR0N/
16:53 Megaf https://www.asciipr0n.com/pr0n/
16:53 Megaf lol https://www.asciipr0n.com/pr0n/morepr0n/pr0n02.txt
16:53 tenplus1 lol
16:57 CalebDavis i gtg see yall later
16:57 tenplus1 cya
16:58 IhrFussel catch_up = true in ABMs basically means "just change every node after a long time" correct?
16:59 Krock no, it tries to imitate its behaviour in unloaded mapblocks
17:00 Krock i.e. executes heck many times to catch up the time it lost
17:00 tenplus1 which can be damaging to a map depending on what the abm does
17:00 IhrFussel Krock, yes that explains why my ocean now is a huge bulk of ice
17:01 Krock also your server lags might be explained with that
17:12 DI3HARD139 So that's where all those text arts are coming from
17:16 * tenplus1 mashes the keyboard and comes up with this:http://www.ansigarden.com/wp-content​/uploads/edd/2017/05/Jabba_McDs.png
17:17 DI3HARD139 lol
17:23 paramat catch_up decreases the 'chance' value once only to simulate the time no players were around, often chance will be changed to 1, causing a very intensive running of the ABM, so in MTG we only use it for crops, if possible try to avoid it
17:23 tenplus1 wait, arent crops on nodetimers ?
17:24 paramat duh yes
17:24 paramat i keep forgetting
17:24 paramat anyway, when i coded the catch_up bool we kept it on crops only or stuff the player needs to catch up
17:25 tenplus1 :P
17:25 paramat MTG runs much smoother now due to that bool, catch_up used to be always-on
17:25 paramat causing big lua lags every time a player returned to any area
17:27 tenplus1 yeah, the erosion mod pre-catch-up destroyed Xanadu mk1... ahahah
17:31 IhrFussel paramat, but the chance is not only 1 for mapblock right? When I flew above the ocean I witnessed how every mapblock INSTANTLY turned to ice
17:32 tenplus1 that'll be catchup in action...
17:32 IhrFussel I thought catch_up would simply "remember" how many times it should've run and simply turns those nodes that meet the chance value
17:33 IhrFussel I didn't think the chance is actually changed
17:33 tenplus1 it can over-run a LOT of nodes
17:35 paramat it tries to compensate for the time with no players by increasing chance, which is of course a crude method, so after any significant time chance it raised as far as it can go and hits 1, so every node gets changed to ice
17:36 paramat *chance is raised
17:36 IhrFussel Is that documented? That the ABM actually CHANGES the chance after a while when catch_up = true?
17:36 paramat maybe, see lua api txt
17:37 paramat i think i documented that
17:37 IhrFussel catch_up = true, -- If true, catch-up behaviour is enabled --[[
17:37 IhrFussel ^ The chance value is temporarily reduced when returning to
17:37 IhrFussel an area to simulate time lost by the area being unattended.
17:37 IhrFussel ^ Note chance value can often be reduced to 1 ]]
17:37 IhrFussel Yep
17:37 paramat good
17:38 tenplus1 what does your abm do excactly fussel ?
17:39 IhrFussel So the chance value after X secs/minutes/hours depends on the initial value? For example if chance is 100 then the ABM will change it to 1 after some time, but if it's 1,000 it will not be 1 after the same time?
17:39 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
17:39 tenplus1 wb Fixer
17:40 IhrFussel tenplus1, my ABM turns nearby water to ice with a chance of 100 and an interval of 15 ... but I didn't know the exact behavior of catch_up = true so I changed it now
17:41 tenplus1 turns water into ice when near what ? snow, other ice ?
17:41 IhrFussel When near ice
17:41 tenplus1 so it'll continue to spread
17:41 IhrFussel In fact only when the neighbor noide is ice
17:41 twoelk lol, just fell into a hole on jt2 completely empty handed - now that hasn't happened to me for quite a while - still a blundering noob after all :-D
17:42 IhrFussel Yes it's supposed to spread but not like that...I had to replace millions of ice nodes now
17:42 Fixer_ joined #minetest-hub
17:43 IhrFussel The new behavior seems to be what I want...I watch the water surrounded by ice and sometimes 1 of them becomes ice
17:44 paramat yes chance is changed according to it's normal value, slower acting ABMs are less likely to hit 1
17:46 IhrFussel Is it very slow to use find_near_node with a radius of 1 on every node in the current mapblock?
17:46 paramat it does soem math to calculate what chance value will cause the expected number of nodes to be triggered to catch up
17:46 paramat *some
17:46 tenplus1 fussel, does your abm use find_node_nead ?
17:46 tenplus1 *near
17:46 IhrFussel In case a player is completely surrounded by water the ABM will run for every water node
17:47 IhrFussel Yes it uses find_node_near with a radius of 1 and node default:ice
17:47 paramat mapblock = 16^3 nodes, do you mean mapchunk 80^3 nodes?
17:48 tenplus1 why dont you use neighbors = "default:ice"
17:48 tenplus1 then you can remove the find node near
17:48 IhrFussel Oh so that's what it's for?
17:49 tenplus1 yeah :)   neighbors only runs the abm if it's near the nodes listed beside water
17:49 paramat tenplus is correct
17:50 tenplus1 e.g.  this is how I turn water into ice for Ethereal mod: https://github.com/tenplus1/eth​ereal/blob/master/water.lua#L46
17:50 IhrFussel ok so nodenames = {"default:water_source"},neighbors = {"default:ice"}, ?
17:50 paramat ABM runs 'action' for every 'nodenames' with the defined 'neighbour'
17:50 paramat yes
17:50 calcul0n joined #minetest-hub
17:51 paramat best to study other mods to see how ABMs are used
17:51 tenplus1 hi calcul0n
17:51 calcul0n hello
17:51 IhrFussel And in action just set_node as ice?
17:52 tenplus1 paramat: does the neighbor act as AND or OR for each node in table ?
17:52 tenplus1 e.g.  neighbor = {"default:ice", "air"}  <-- does it need both or only one
17:56 tenplus1 just tested... it's OR
17:56 tenplus1 :P
18:01 paramat yes OR
18:02 paramat IhrFussel correct
18:02 paramat so yeah neightbour air is needed if you just want surface ice
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18:03 tenplus1 hi sniper
18:04 IhrFussel Ice usually only exists as surface on water...or not?
18:04 IhrFussel I mean it's not underwater
18:05 IhrFussel So in the worst case it could turn water 1 node below surface to ice which is a non issue
18:06 tenplus1 if you dont put "air" as neighbor then it'll turn all of the ocean into ice... even underwater
18:07 IhrFussel Oh...but then I need air AND ice as neighbors
18:07 IhrFussel Not OR
18:07 tenplus1 can use "air" as neighbor and use your find_node_near to look for nearby ice
18:08 IhrFussel Which will make it only run 16 times at once max hm
18:09 IhrFussel active block range is 1 on my server by the way
18:09 tenplus1 that's fine
18:10 tenplus1 it'll only run on surface water near ice when player is around so that's fine :)
18:14 tenplus1 also tweaking the abm so that it runs on the lesser node will make it more optimized
18:17 tenplus1 wb fixer
18:26 paramat oh of course, it's an OR, duh
18:27 tenplus1 :P
18:29 Aerozoic joined #minetest-hub
18:30 tenplus1 hi Aerozoic
18:30 Aerozoic wazup peeps!
18:31 tenplus1 o/
18:36 tenplus1 lol http://staginglol.gemnnwclth7mfvu.maxcdn-edge​.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/invention.jpg
18:41 Dargod hey tenplus1
18:41 tenplus1 o/ Dargod
18:43 Dargod Is there any way to add sfinv support for simple_skins?
18:43 tenplus1 I tried a while ago, since sfinv sets the background you cannot see yourself trying out new skins... so I added the /skin command instead so it runs without inventory_plus
18:46 Krock tenplus1, I want this shower coffee machine!
18:46 tenplus1 how many minutes will it save you in the mornings ???
18:48 Aerozoic oh hi tenplus1, i posted on your farming thread a couple hours ago :)
18:49 tenplus1 checking...
18:51 tenplus1 Aerozoic: Farimng Plus has banana,orange,strawberry and those items are only for compatibility sake so thast players dont lose thoseitems if ethereal isnt installed
18:51 Aerozoic I thought so, but then shouldn't that file only be loaded if farming plus is installed?
18:52 Aerozoic I mean it's not really a problem, i just noticed i have those extra nodes on my server XD
18:52 tenplus1 some other mods use farming plus' fruits so I've left it there just incase to save me a ton of checks
18:54 lisac tenplus1, thanks for PR, merged :)
18:55 tenplus1 np lisac :) hope it helped
18:55 Aerozoic ok, maybe i will use them for special rewards or something :)
18:55 tenplus1 Aerozoic: good idea, if you want I can hide them from the creative inventory :P
18:57 lisac tenplus1, may I ask if you intend to add it to Xanadu?
18:57 lisac I'm not sure if the feature is really needed; this is more of a CSM job
18:58 lisac but CSMs being banned, that might be a problem
18:58 tenplus1 true, will leave that up to players to install since they are the one's ignoring folk :P
18:58 tenplus1 things like that are fine, any CSM that affects global chat or the game itself if banned
18:59 lisac I might even believe you if I'm not greeted with 'NO CSMS ALLOWED ON THIS SERVER!' every time I join :P
19:00 tenplus1 lol
19:00 tenplus1 the whole csm thing should be fixed when server is updated to 0.5.0
19:03 tenplus1 Once an sfinv page/tab is registered, can it be updated ???
19:05 rubenwardy yes
19:05 behalebabo joined #minetest-hub
19:05 rubenwardy tenplus1, sfinv.override_page(name, def) - overrides fields of an page registered with register_page.
19:06 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/minetest​_game/blob/master/game_api.txt#L456
19:06 tenplus1 kewl, wanna eventually port homepos mod over as well
19:06 rubenwardy look at the sfinv_buttons mod, it's quite useful
19:06 rubenwardy I also have a fork of it in its topic which displays the buttons in an unified inv way
19:07 tenplus1 interesting... can background colour/image be overridden as well per tab ?
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19:26 * tenplus1 is testing Firefox 57.0
19:30 garywhite hello
19:30 tenplus1 hi gary
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19:36 tenplus1 wb behalebabo, paramat
19:38 tenplus1 pah! why does gtk3 not support the default gtk2 themes...
19:40 Raven262 Cause it is more advanced! xD
19:41 Raven262 No, really, why?
19:41 tenplus1 paaaaaaah!!!!!
19:41 tenplus1 hi raven :P
19:41 Raven262 Hi ten
19:41 benrob0329 Because GTK3 uses CSS?
19:41 tenplus1 am using gtk2 ThinIce engine which I really like, but they have no ThinIce for gtk3 progs
19:41 * Raven262 is now going to go and play skyrim (afk)
19:41 tenplus1 enjoy :P
19:42 Raven262 Btw, if anyone has some good skyrim mods to recommend, i would like to know
19:42 Raven262 I'm kinda noob in skyrim modding :P
19:42 tenplus1 heh
19:43 rubenwardy really need to investigate playing Skyrim underrim
19:43 rubenwardy *under wine
19:43 tenplus1 steam release has a gold rating, works fine under wine :)
19:44 rubenwardy nice
19:44 rubenwardy Just need to find out how to install a Windows game from Steam on linux
19:44 tenplus1 get .exe or .msi, right-click and run with windows loader :) it's that simple
19:45 rubenwardy from steam though. Do I need to install Steam under Wine too?
19:45 tenplus1 I installed steam for windows that way so that every game in the library runs
19:45 tenplus1 yes
19:45 tenplus1 install steam.exe 1st then it all slots in from there
19:46 rubenwardy I was stuggling to get a game to run the other day due to DirectX, then tried -opengl as a command line flag, and it worked!
19:47 rubenwardy happy the devs thought of that
19:47 tenplus1 yeah, vulkan is getting good support as well now
19:49 red-001 I think you can run at least a few games without steam if you pass the -steam flag
19:49 tenplus1 the only issue with running windows games under wine is the damn .net and vc++ packages...
19:50 red-001 can't you just install the vc++ packages?
19:50 red-001 or do they check if they are running under wine before installing
19:50 tenplus1 they install well enough, it's just the sheer amount of them   .net 2.5  .net 3.0   .net 3.5 etc etc
19:51 red-001 ah
19:51 tenplus1 it's frustrating that different games need different versions isntalled
19:51 red-001 yeah it's a pain even under windows sometimes
19:51 tenplus1 windows sucks for that...  which is why I'd love native linux versions if possible
19:52 red-001 you install some program and it wants so cryptic msvc dll you google it and you only get those annoying "dll fixer" sites
19:52 tenplus1 this is where Steam comes into it's own cause it'll pick up on the missing files or .net packages and isntall them for you
19:53 red-001 yeah that's nice
19:53 tenplus1 I have "Alice: Madness Returns" running perfectly on linux under wine 2.01
19:53 red-001 it's annoying through when devs take advantage of that and install some shitty DRM/anticheat software
19:54 tenplus1 heh
19:54 red-001 I'm looking at you punkbuster
19:54 tenplus1 I buy most of my games through humble bundle though cause they push linux formats alongside windows...
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20:07 tenplus1 nite all
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20:47 Calinou <tenplus1> yeah, vulkan is getting good support as well now
20:47 Calinou not a lot of popular games support it, though
20:47 Calinou even though Unity and UE4 now have it
20:48 Calinou (both beta-grade right now, IIRC)
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21:13 IhrFussel gzip -l shows weird values on a map.sqlite.gz file: compressed uncompressed  ratio 4025507141 367170560 -996.4%
21:14 IhrFussel Compressed is larger than uncompressed? ratio almost -1,000% ? What?
21:16 Calinou it is possible for a compressed file to be larger than an uncompressed one, yes
21:16 Calinou but very rare
21:17 IhrFussel Calinou, but the size shrunk from 8.4 GB to 3.8 ... so larger compressed size makes no sense
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21:25 rubenwardy OMFG
21:25 rubenwardy I placed a button in a formspec
21:25 rubenwardy and got it right first time
21:25 rubenwardy #winning
21:31 IhrFussel Found the source of the problem "The gzip format represents the input size modulo 2^32, so the uncompressed size and compression ratio are listed incorrectly for uncompressed files 4 GiB and larger."
21:32 Calinou rubenwardy: feels like CSS placement
21:32 Calinou you're just in awe when you place something right on the first try :D
21:32 rubenwardy I'm actually mostly ok with CSS, except when I do columns
21:32 rubenwardy or side bars
21:33 rubenwardy I mean, I still usually have to adjust it slightly
21:53 CalebDavis i gtg see yall later
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23:25 rubenwardy Added a chapter about SFINV to the modding book! https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_mo​dding_book/en/chapters/sfinv.html
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