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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-09-15

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:32 rubenwardy If anyone has any complaints or suggestions about Minetest development but don't wish to speak publicly, feel free to
01:32 rubenwardy PM me
01:33 rubenwardy or send an email the "rw" user on the "rubenwardy.com" domain
01:33 rubenwardy *to the
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07:52 celeron55 rubenwardy: that's nostalgia? well look at this then: http://c55.me/minetest_oldsite/
07:52 celeron55 THAT's nostalgia
07:55 celeron55 or even older: http://c55.me/minetest-bak-2011-02-14/
07:55 celeron55 i have my own internet archive, you blebs
07:56 celeron55 plebs* (ok, can't write english though)
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10:02 rubenwardy woah
10:02 rubenwardy not sure which one I joined on
10:02 rubenwardy ah, it'll be _oldsite
10:02 rubenwardy as it mentions that 0.4 is in dev
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10:09 Calinou joined #minetest-hub
10:10 Calinou hi
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10:15 Raven262 Hi Calinou.
10:24 Fixer http://c55.me/minetest2/ not sure why it is so amazing, another minetest page with outdated downloads
10:27 rubenwardy it even links to api.minetest.net
10:27 rubenwardy the old domain made by cornernote iirc
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11:05 Calinou the old site, so many memories
11:06 Calinou "Core developers: umm... how about ohloh?" :D
11:06 Calinou I loved Open Hub's old name
11:06 Calinou "ohloh", so many times misspelled "ohlol"
11:16 * twoelk looks at the log
11:18 twoelk oh, cool!  can I add links to the old sites in the wiki? in some history section that might not exist yet
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11:43 IhrFussel Hello people of earth
11:43 IhrFussel (assuming everybody is from earth :P)
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13:23 celeron55 twoelk: do not add links to the old sites
13:23 celeron55 twoelk: they are hosted at my parent's 1Mbit/s DSL
13:23 celeron55 twoelk: you'll make them very angry
13:23 twoelk oops :-(
13:24 celeron55 twoelk: mirror them somewhere if you want to link them
13:25 * Jordach logs onto c55.me
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13:34 twoelk thinking of the old versions and the coming v0.5.0 whe might need some sort of compatability table to give an overview wich client, server and map versions may work together
13:35 Jordach https://github.com/whats-this
13:35 * Jordach dies laughing
13:35 twoelk rip
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14:01 CalebDavis hi Aerozoic
14:01 Aerozoic wazup CalebDavis
14:04 rubenwardy https://www.tomsguide.com/us/blueborne-b​luetooth-security-flaws,news-25836.html
14:04 rubenwardy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az-l90RCns8
14:05 rubenwardy affects windows, linux, android, and ios
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14:37 rdococ hi
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14:42 rdococ Krockodile!
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15:23 tenplus1 hi folks
15:23 Jordach rubenwardy, meanwhile my devices: patched, patched, patched, patched and patched
15:23 tenplus1 hi jordach
15:25 rdococ hi eleven
15:25 tenplus1 hi rdococ
15:27 tenplus1 Mobs Redo API updated to 1.39 - 'on_breed', 'on_grown', 'do_punch' custom functions added per mob
15:29 Krock hi tenplus1
15:29 tenplus1 hi Krock
15:32 tenplus1 For any gamers in the room who use Steam, they have 100% OFF Psychonauts at the moment, get it for free :)
15:33 benrob0329 tenplus1: what's the game about?
15:33 tenplus1 hi benrob, it's an excellent puzzle game with a good story, huge levels and takes a while to complete :)
15:34 Krock I'm sure they copied sofar
15:34 tenplus1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md_8uDtbffQ
15:34 tenplus1 sofar ?
15:34 Krock nvm, quite different levels/puzzles than #insidethebox
15:36 tenplus1 lolol
15:36 benrob0329 Ohh that game
15:36 benrob0329 Looks a little wierd for my tastes :PP
15:37 tenplus1 is a funny adventure :)
15:37 tenplus1 I like how you gotta collect psychic abilities to progress :)
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15:56 tenplus1 wb
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15:58 rdococ woof
15:58 tenplus1 :P
16:01 rdococ woffle
16:01 rdococ I created a flowing water system of the finite kind in Roblox Studio, for no other reason than I was bored(TM).
16:02 tenplus1 lol, that's how most thigns come about :D
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16:02 rdococ lol
16:03 tenplus1 am watching "10 reasons not to buy iPhone X"...
16:04 rubenwardy 1. It's Apple
16:04 rubenwardy 2. It's not food
16:04 tenplus1 lol
16:04 rdococ lol
16:05 rubenwardy 3. Food and iPhone X are mutually exclusive possession
16:05 rdococ so if you get an iPhone X, you starve to death unless you can throw it away?
16:05 tenplus1 seems that it has screen problems, not enough memory for $1000 and face unlock doesnt work properly
16:07 rdococ Would a product you can pay to use, and then pay more to get the source code, be FLOSS, or at least partially FLOSS?
16:08 rubenwardy no
16:08 rdococ Ah.
16:08 rubenwardy floss means that users can get the code
16:08 rubenwardy hmmm
16:08 rubenwardy at least that's stallmans definition
16:13 rdococ Holy nutballs, I knew Minecraft had a Switch edition but not an Apple TV, Amazon Fire, or New Nintendo 3DS release!
16:13 tenplus1 erk!
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16:15 rdococ I like the Nintendo Switch's lack of region locking, though. You can't fault that.
16:16 tenplus1 the switch is pretty good, lets hope that Nintendo go with the dock upgrades instead of buying a new console each time
16:16 rdococ Hm, what would be the equivalent of FLOSS for hardware?
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16:24 tenplus1 hi amaz
16:24 LazyJ joined #minetest-hub
16:24 tenplus1 hi LazyJ
16:25 Amaz Hi ten :)
16:25 tenplus1 o/
16:27 Raven262 Hi tenplus1
16:27 rdococ I'm modifying my water system in Roblox Studio to use the Moore neighborhood.
16:27 tenplus1 o/raven
16:27 * tenplus1 modifies rdococ's water system to automatically brew coffee
16:28 rdococ Woah!
16:28 * rdococ builds a piping apparatus to redirect the coffee towards his mouth
16:28 tenplus1 hehehe
16:29 LazyJ A belated "Howdy" tenplus1 ;)
16:29 tenplus1 :P
16:35 rdococ I wonder why game engines like Minetest and games like Minecraft chose the 4-cell neighborhood for water calculations as opposed to the 8-cell neighborhood.
16:36 * tenplus1 googles this
16:36 rubenwardy rdococ, makes it easier for corner calcuations
16:36 rubenwardy eg:
16:36 rubenwardy X
16:36 rdococ ah
16:36 rubenwardy X
16:36 rubenwardy you don't want water going through that gap
16:37 tenplus1 ohh, so you place in X pattern
16:37 rdococ ah
16:38 rdococ huh, interesting.
16:38 rdococ I modified my flowing script to use the Moore neighborhood, but I don't get that problem.
16:38 tenplus1 moore neighberhoodd ?
16:38 rdococ 8-cell
16:38 rdococ it may be because Roblox doesn't use a 3D grid of nodes, so I have to manually cast rays to determine where neighboring water nodes are
16:39 rdococ well, that or I broke it
16:44 tenplus1 I still havent played with the new raycast feature in minetest
16:44 rdococ me neither tbh
16:44 ThomasMonroe hi ten
16:44 tenplus1 hi thomas
16:45 tenplus1 am still figuring out what else to add to Mobs Redo API :P
16:45 rdococ there's also the point that my water system doesn't deal with falling water or anything like that, yet
16:48 twoelk maybe tamed animals could look different than wild ones e.g. warthog->pig or deer->cow
16:48 rdococ wait, deer->cow?!
16:48 tenplus1 would need someone to make textures for those :D
16:48 twoelk uh, not really good examples
16:48 tenplus1 lol
16:49 twoelk but tamed pigs should look different to wild ones
16:49 tenplus1 I updated earlier with new on_breed on_grown and do_punch custom functions for each mob...
16:50 twoelk how about sort of virtual tethering to some pole
16:50 tenplus1 also the on_spawn function from last update is not put to good use with Bunny mob (place on snow for white bunny, desert stone/sand for brown bunny, gravel/stone for grey bunny) or anywhere else for random
16:51 twoelk needn't be a real rope but just some sort of stay near this place thingy
16:51 tenplus1 like a particle effect that links to fence
16:52 * rdococ links tenplus1 to a fence
16:52 twoelk or some sort of frozen throwing path?
16:52 tenplus1 would be nice if we could somehow draw lines/arcs within game
16:54 tenplus1 would inter-breeding be a thing ?  e.g.   horse + donkey = mule ?  or dog + cat = weird thing that bites
16:54 twoelk couldn't PA old throwing mod be missused for that?
16:55 rubenwardy tenplus1, first, maybe if you can then use it in transport
16:55 Fixer "Google will automatically delete Android backups if a device is inactive for two months"
16:55 Fixer LOLOLOLOL
16:55 rubenwardy second, no unless you're doing some sort of breeding mod
16:55 Fixer (((((((cloud))))))))
16:55 tenplus1 hi fixer
16:55 Fixer hi
16:55 tenplus1 yeah, I had an issue added for interbreeding... couldnt think of a decent use for it really
16:59 twoelk maybe some swimming waterfowl might look nice on my castle moats or cottage ponds - some nice swan or such
16:59 tenplus1 yeah, currently the chickens think they're ducks... :P
17:00 twoelk well actually chikens and ducks are more related to each other than other birds - so ...
17:02 rdococ lol
17:02 tenplus1 :)
17:04 twoelk maybe a swimming feature on or near a surface might be usefull besides the usual bobbing about in the water
17:05 tenplus1 yeah, like it's gliding along the surface
17:05 twoelk like boats
17:10 IhrFussel rubenwardy, on my server there's a random event that seems to cause much lag/is heavy on CPU cause it goes each sec through the online list, checks for each player a certain priv, if found it continues to check a random value, if OK it checks the player surroundings..if OK it checks if there's air below the player, if yes it calculates another random value and then spawns a monster nearby
17:10 tenplus1 hi fussel
17:11 IhrFussel I'm thinking about how to make it more efficient =/ ... hello tenplus1
17:12 rubenwardy random values are usually more efficient than searching nodes
17:12 rubenwardy maybe even checking privs
17:12 rubenwardy so I'd check those first
17:12 Shara Hi all
17:14 rdococ hi Shara
17:16 Shara rdococ: mew
17:16 IhrFussel Hey Shara =) ... rubenwardy  okay but that's the only thing I can improve on?
17:17 rubenwardy I'm not sure on the usecase, so I don't know
17:17 Shara Hi Fussel :)
17:17 tenplus1 hi shara
17:17 IhrFussel Well it's supposed to spawn randomly a monster nearby a player with a certain priv but only if the player is not mid-air, and there is air somewhere around the player
17:17 Shara Hi ten :P
17:17 Shara Two hwole people were quicker!!
17:17 Shara whole*
17:18 * tenplus1 was making pasta for noms :D
17:18 Shara :D
17:19 tenplus1 random values are one thing but that would affect spawning chances as well in mob definitions
17:19 tenplus1 how about adding a hard-limit to how many monsters/animals are allowed to exist at one time ?
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17:22 tenplus1 hi nrz
17:22 rdococ a passive animal mod could spawn animals in the on_generate callback, maybe?
17:23 tenplus1 I was thinking that also, so that animals are limited and need to be tamed/bred... and monsters just appear whenever conditions are right
17:23 nerzhul hi tenplus1
17:23 IhrFussel The code I use simply uses minetest.add_entity(pos,mobname) ... but all those checks are heavy
17:23 rdococ add periodical zombie apocalypses where players can become zombies
17:24 tenplus1 ehehehe
17:25 tenplus1 or the equivalent of a blood moon
17:25 rdococ vampires
17:25 rdococ they suck your blood, making you lose health slowly. and when you're a vampire, only blood will satiate you.
17:25 IhrFussel That's almost what my event is called "Blood Night"
17:26 tenplus1 ehe, that'd be interesting
17:26 rdococ then have extremely hard to get blood substitute
17:26 * Shara had a blood moon on the server last Halloween :P
17:26 Shara http://rc.minetest.tv/wp-conte​nt/uploads/2016/10/hallows.png
17:27 rdococ woah
17:27 rdococ shara, you should have a total eclipse
17:27 rdococ on the server, I mean
17:27 Shara skyboxes are really quite limited, sadly
17:27 rdococ days would have much darker skies, and the sun would look like a halo
17:27 rdococ ah
17:28 Shara I really want to be able to add custom sun/moon to custom skyboxes
17:28 rdococ agreed
17:28 tenplus1 yeah, that would be awesome
17:28 rdococ I once created a mod which dynamically overlayed an earth texture of various sizes depending on how deep you were into space
17:28 Shara Also want biome specific skyboxes and the ability for smooth transitions between them
17:28 rdococ agreed too
17:29 Shara It's something I played with a lot, just never released because... of all that
17:29 Shara CHanges the atmosphere completely if done right
17:29 tenplus1 can imagine, and would look amazing
17:29 Shara Some screenshots from my last time messing about are here still: http://rc.minetest.tv/2017/04/14​/sneak-preview-the-box-skyboxes/
17:29 * tenplus1 still wants better footstep sounds on mt...  that youtube vid with realistic sounds has spoiled my senses
17:30 rdococ tenplus1, pretty sure that's super easy to change :P
17:30 rdococ I mean, I'm pretty sure mt itself, the core, has no footstep sounds
17:30 Shara Had some ideas for puzzles where time of day would matter, and you'd do things, turn around and look out the windows, and see the sky had changed
17:30 tenplus1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K53cqqAbgU
17:32 * twoelk got some screenshots made while crossing the border of dark space and red space back and forth on rc
17:33 Shara :)
17:34 * Shara thinks twoelk needs to build more!
17:34 rdococ ooh, does it change gradually?
17:34 Shara I wish
17:34 rdococ ah
17:34 rdococ can't you overlay a translucent texture?
17:34 Shara I mean, it would probably be possible, but maybe not for the health of the server
17:34 twoelk I got a nephew that considers himself leader of some bloodmoon pack maybe I should point him to such a mt server
17:34 rdococ ah
17:35 Shara Skybox on RC is height based
17:35 twoelk so many servers to build on, so many unfinished projects
17:35 Shara So it's the normal one at ground level, and space levels above a certain point
17:35 tenplus1 could be modified to location based shara
17:35 Shara But that means actually checking where players are
17:35 Shara tenplus1: in what way?
17:36 rdococ woah this chilli sauce is super spicy
17:36 twoelk I did create a little stream or two near my cottage on rc, not sure where to put the castle yet :-P
17:36 Shara I'm totally open for code improvements if you see them, so feel free to PR :P
17:36 tenplus1 when it does the height check you could do a quick for/loop at the start for registered locations (areas) and if inside that location it displays a different skybox... if not then it goes by height
17:36 Shara Hmm, not sure how that would help
17:36 Shara Since all that matters is height
17:36 rdococ hm
17:37 tenplus1 mods can register skyboxes for say mob battles, specific buildings etc like I do lucky blocks :D
17:37 rdococ ooh, area skyboxes?
17:37 Shara It wouldn't be difficult
17:37 Shara Just not sure it it helps me at all
17:38 tenplus1 hrm, we still waiting for this to be tested by Sofar:https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/pull/1886
17:38 twoelk wouldn't it be nicer for the client to check th hight and choose accordingly to some config input? why bother the server
17:38 Shara twoelk: yea, but that doesn't really seem to be where CSM got ut to sadly
17:38 tenplus1 https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/pull/1884 this too
17:38 Shara us*
17:39 Shara The server should decide where the skyboxes are, but it would be nice if the client then did the checks beyond some initial input but....
17:39 * Shara shrugs
17:40 Shara I think when I looked this wasn't a way for CSM to set skyboxes. Maybe I'm wrong? But if there is, it's also kind of bad unless the server also wants those skyboxes.
17:40 Shara there wasn't*
17:41 sofar skybox csm doesn't make much sense
17:42 rdococ it would be nice for the server to offload some code to the client, maybe according to a specified data limit, and in a sandboxed environment to avoid malware
17:42 tenplus1 sofar: if you get a sec, could you test this so paramat can add: https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/pull/1884
17:42 Shara sofar: that would all depend how it was done, but from what I have seen the wrong approach was taken to CSM for that to be useful
17:43 sofar tenplus1: not atm, sorry
17:43 tenplus1 k
17:44 rdococ csms atm seem to be the best for custom commands
17:44 Shara Problem for the server is if you want situational skyboxes, or to add gradual transitions between them, then it seems you're just adding too many checks
17:45 Shara I know I could do most of what I want, but not efficiently enough to be useful.
17:45 rdococ well, the areas mod does update the HUD when you enter an area
17:45 sofar gradual changes? like cloud thickness changes?
17:45 rdococ cloud thickness?
17:45 sofar that's not overly expensive
17:45 sofar cloud color
17:46 sofar fog color
17:46 Shara not cloud thickness
17:46 rdococ I think we mean skybox texture...
17:46 sofar but a skybox change is just a tiny packet
17:46 Shara I'd want to fade out one skybox and fade in another
17:46 sofar still, tiny packets
17:46 Shara but it's position based, so you need to check the player's position often enough
17:47 sofar player position checks are trivial and cheap
17:47 sofar map scanning is the expensive thing
17:47 Shara Hmm, to give context then...
17:47 sofar if you do map scanning (e.g. particles, sound effects) then CSM makes sense
17:47 Xio joined #minetest-hub
17:47 sofar but globalstep already monitors player positions
17:47 sofar so hooking in a skybox function that monitors and sends some packets isn't really expensive
17:47 Shara Server with 20+ players online (running on a VPS, not dedicated). How often would it be fine to check positions of every player?
17:48 sofar every second should just be fine
17:48 Shara I currently have it set to 2 seconds, but it wouldn't be close tot he level of control I'd be looking for
17:48 Shara to*
17:48 sofar fade/blending would be interesting for skyboxes, that's for sure
17:49 Shara It's one of the main barriers to really using them well in my opinion
17:49 Shara You can't even do smooth day/night transitions
17:50 sofar yes, that's virtually impossible
17:50 Shara Hmm
17:50 sofar I solved this on itb by doing away with it entirely
17:50 sofar time_speed = 0
17:50 Shara I could probably do something with it but ikk
17:50 rdococ yeah, but itb doesn't need a day/night cycle
17:51 rdococ other servers might like that, especially survival ones with night-time mobs
17:51 Shara My long term goal for my survival server would be skyboxes that can actually work without sudden changes, and weather conditions that actually affect player stats
17:51 sofar right
17:52 Shara I've got everything else I wanted working on there now, but not those pieces
17:52 Shara (custom armours I want are still missing too, but those are in progress...)
17:52 IhrFussel rubenwardy, can it slow down the code a lot if you use player:get_player_name() multiple times vs local name = player:get_player_name() ?
17:53 * tenplus1 has 20 skyboxes setup for night time that gradually fade from black to deepest black
17:53 Shara I'll think about the skyboxes more though. If checking location is less expensive than I've been led to think, something could be possible
17:53 rdococ IhrFussel, definitely at least a little, since you're making a function call
17:53 rdococ even more when you take into account the probability that it's a C++ function
17:54 rdococ though im not certain
17:54 sofar player location is hot ram at all times
17:54 rdococ to be honest, I like Roblox Lua's approach of having the properties and children of objects be indexed the same way you index the contents of a table
17:55 rdococ e.g. object.Name, or part.Size, or folder.Object
17:55 rdococ and to modify a property, you assign to it like you do with table assignment e.g. object.Name = "yay"
17:57 tenplus1 I would love for enging to store not only player location but nodes they are standing on, foot level and head level
17:58 Shara Hmm, okay. Thanks sofar
17:58 rdococ tenplus1, a mod could probably do that
17:58 rdococ o
17:58 rdococ wait
17:58 rdococ nvm
17:58 tenplus1 PlayerPlus currently does
17:58 tenplus1 so does 3d_armor
17:59 tenplus1 and ambience
17:59 tenplus1 all reading the same nodes for each player...  which is why I'd love for it to be in engine already
17:59 rdococ hm
17:59 sofar reading nodes?
17:59 sofar why does 3d_armor read nodes?
17:59 rdococ tenplus1, tbh, I think we just need a mod that provides that functionality like a library
18:00 sofar I mean, ambiance is something that needs to go CSM, for sure
18:00 sofar same with particle effects like smoke on torches, bubbles in water/lava
18:01 Shara Definitely, I just get torn because I want some ability to control the experience players get on my servers
18:01 sofar aye, I get it. You've seen my server :)
18:02 Shara Like... if ambience has bird song, but my server only has insects flying around, that doesn't make any sense at all
18:02 sofar csm music ambiance is silly imho
18:02 sofar music should be something you push from the server
18:03 sofar tbh I really want csm code sending
18:03 Shara So I'd love to see some communication where the ambience mod checks something on the server to know what matches up
18:03 sofar otherwise there's zero control from the server about the experience
18:03 tenplus1 I do both in Ambiance Lite...  if server contains ambiance_music.1.ogg .2.ogg etc it plays them come midnight, if it's on client it'll play from there instead
18:03 sofar mod channels may improve things
18:04 Shara Like let the server be able to somehow define what makes sense for it, then CSM mods (obviously depending on the mod and the player...) can respect that to get the best experience for that server
18:04 sofar tenplus1: but if the server contains music.ogg, it is *sent* to the client irregardless
18:05 Shara Adding too much music/sound effects, even if they are ones a player will never hear, can hurt when it comes to media download time
18:05 sofar meh, it also weeds out android players, as I've learned :D
18:06 Shara I think RC's problem is more number of files than size right now
18:09 tenplus1 true, but it means the server doesnt NEED to provide .ogg's and instead players can use their own
18:12 sofar the only way that is possible is if the server knows what the filenames are, and can tell the clients to play them
18:12 sofar this means that users are required to manually download a file and properly install it
18:12 sofar which is stupid
18:13 lisac hey tenplus1
18:13 tenplus1 not really... it means you can have a very server-lite ambiance mod that has the ability to PLAY music if it's found on client's game
18:13 tenplus1 hi lisac
18:13 lisac It's friday!
18:13 sofar minetest has this fantastic thing that allows it to seamlessly get all the needed assets for every server... why would you want to force players to go to some shady download site and click a potentially hazardous file?
18:13 tenplus1 ambiance_music.1.ogg .2.ogg etc
18:14 tenplus1 they dont need to have music on server, it's just incase they wanna use there own music files... or a specific server can supply it's own music
18:14 sofar you're making a mod for the 1% that understands it
18:14 sofar the rest of the players will see a bland and unappetizing game
18:14 Shara I've actually learned hardly any players care about sound
18:15 sofar you've not looked at the chat in #insidethebox then
18:15 Shara probably depends what you are doing with it
18:15 Shara but I stripped a lot of sound out of RC
18:15 Shara Players to ask about it ever = 2
18:16 sofar i think the number #1 comment of players it that they love the music on the server
18:16 Shara maybe I'll take another look sometime
18:16 Shara I kind of lost interest because it didn't like I could do anything useful there to be honest
18:17 Shara didn't seem*
18:20 sofar no worries
18:21 sofar I just went throug the irc logs, there's 15+ people who've complemented on the music tracks
18:21 sofar of course, for a survival type server it won't really work
18:21 sofar it's just an entirely different game
18:21 Shara Yup.
18:21 sofar I would make ambiance more of a sound effect type of thing in general
18:22 sofar exclude music from it
18:22 sofar pvp I can see music work, though
18:22 Shara For so many things to work well, they need to respond to location/biome/player actions/other things, or they just end up out of place
18:22 tenplus1 as it stands that's how ambience lite works, it has the option for music if player wishes
18:23 sofar well the problem with music on a generic server is that some people take to the medieval theme, and then techno is out of place
18:23 sofar and some experience it more steampunk, or modern, etc
18:23 sofar unless you have a specific motif, it's impossible
18:23 Shara I did quite like one old ambience mod that added music (don't remember which).. made a big difference
18:23 sofar unless you want to force a motif
18:23 sofar but then csm sound packs would kill the experience
18:24 tenplus1 I'm currently using the old ambience music pack for testing :) it's really good
18:24 sofar it... just doesn't make sense
18:24 Shara well, on my survival I kind of do have specific themes in mind
18:24 Shara which is why pure CSM music would be an issue to me
18:24 sofar anyway, on itb the player can disable music and keep sound effects
18:24 tenplus1 and the good thing is that if you supply your own music then it no longer loads the client side one's :)
18:25 tenplus1 itb ???  itty-bitty ?
18:25 sofar #insidethebox - itv
18:25 sofar #insidethebox - itb
18:25 tenplus1 ah
18:25 Shara Pity it's not a setting really, and players only dl music files if they have that option on
18:25 rdococ itty-vitty
18:25 tenplus1 mcvittie :)
18:25 tenplus1 mmm
18:25 Shara have it off by default, and server would only need to send that to those clients that enabled it
18:26 sofar the client can't login and then download media
18:26 sofar besides, I want the itb music to be enabled by default
18:26 sofar did I mention it also prevents most mobile clients from connecting?
18:26 rdococ ooh
18:27 tenplus1 having the memory use kinda high so they cannot connect/load game ?
18:30 rdococ I feel bad for people that only know minetest through mobile clients tbh
18:30 Shara I don't mean login then download it
18:30 Shara I'm talking about in settings before you connect
18:31 Shara Switching sound on in game then it downloading wouldn't make any sense
18:31 rdococ hm, is there an official mobile client?
18:32 Shara not for the i-people
18:32 rdococ ah
18:32 rdococ I used to be an i-person. then I ate the Apple.
18:32 rdococ can't wait for the iMoneyVacuum though
18:33 Shara I don't even want to stop them playing, just to stop them using stupid clients...
18:33 rdococ hm
18:34 rdococ maybe a mod that notifies the player not to use a mobile client, but in a non-intrusive manner, e.g. along with a list of rules?
18:36 sofar I play on my server with the android client
18:36 sofar it just takes about 2 minutes to load
18:36 sofar that's not even the media download time
18:36 sofar not even sure why
18:36 sofar but I have 500+ multicraft clients connect to my media server *weekly*
18:37 sofar I don't think any of them are patient enough to actually connect
18:38 Shara I get a surprising number who do stick around and play... but also a lot who manage to connect and then can't solve the... thing that's two basic to be called a puzzle which is needed to get interact
18:38 Shara too*
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18:46 rdococ lol
18:47 tenplus1 hi caleb
18:47 rdococ sofar: can you determine which clients are multicraft ones?
18:48 CalebDavis hi ten
18:48 sofar the media server can
18:48 rubenwardy they use a custom user agent
18:48 rdococ ah
18:48 rubenwardy "Multicraft 1.0.0" or something
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18:49 rubenwardy just need to get fail2ban to IP ban anyone that connects with a user agent containing Multicraft 😈
18:50 sofar haha
18:51 sofar I don't care, 5tb of monthly bandwidth and I'm nowhere near the limit
18:51 sofar the media server also is entirely shrouded, so not much bots/scrapers etc can do
18:51 sofar http://media.foo-projects.org/
18:52 sofar you can't even GET index.mth
18:52 sofar you have to POST to it
19:05 rdococ daym
19:05 rdococ how would I do that?
19:05 rdococ ah, wait, I think I did
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19:12 Calinou hi!
19:12 Calinou my VPS is back up
19:12 Calinou they put it back up, without comments, although they did wait 20 hours for that :|
19:12 Calinou I'm setting up a backup system very soon
19:12 Calinou (any ideas? I'd like to back things up to my local NAS every day)
19:12 Calinou (thinking about putting my own configuration files in $HOME/configs, and symlinking them to the relevant places, so I can archive that folder easily)
19:13 Calinou (and website files, and database)
19:13 Calinou databases*
19:17 Fixer store your data in cloud folks, it will be perfectly safe, I promise...
19:17 Fixer local backup is for pussies
19:17 Fixer etc
19:18 sfan5 Calinou: daily .tgz of the important stuff
19:18 Calinou Fixer: that's exactly what I'm aiming to do
19:18 Calinou sfan5: yes, exactly
19:18 Calinou should I use specific software for this, or just my own script (more likely to fail, probably)?
19:18 sfan5 but without that symlinking stuff
19:18 Calinou why not?
19:18 sfan5 less work
19:18 Fixer Calinou: wait a second, you moved data to cloud without local backup?
19:18 Calinou well, how do I back my configuration files all at once?
19:18 Calinou they are *not* in /etc!
19:18 Calinou and won't be
19:19 sfan5 you'll need to find out where they are anyway so why not directly tar them up?
19:20 Calinou yeah but that will make my script long-ass or something
19:20 Calinou they all sit in different folders
19:20 Calinou and there's like, 10-15 of them
19:21 sfan5 so?
19:21 sfan5 Calinou: https://a.uguu.se/JZMkjH6Z8AJw_Bild​schirmfoto_2017-09-15_21-19-50.png
19:21 Calinou writing a ton of paths = bad, IMO
19:21 Calinou it's harder to keep track of
19:21 sfan5 well i surely don't want to always make sure the configs are symlinked properly and that updates didnt somehow change this
19:22 Calinou updates are never going to change this, since I manage the software myself :P
19:22 Calinou it's not coming from packages
19:22 Calinou (read: game servers)
19:22 Calinou yes, it's not a ton of work to reconfigure them, but I still don't want to
19:22 sfan5 well then you have even less to worry about
19:23 sfan5 anyway, just do a script like this and have it rsync that to your nas on a cronjob (or perhaps the other way around if you don't want to open a port)
19:23 Calinou yes
19:23 Calinou I'll end up opening a port if I can, it's a nightmare with this ISP though
19:23 Calinou any change requires restarting the router, and you do everything on a remote (i.e. not on LAN) interface!
19:24 Calinou it was way better at my previous ISP
19:24 Calinou but this one is sooo cheap… [not a Simpsons reference]
19:24 sfan5 for my main vps i actually just backup the whole /
19:24 sfan5 partially because i don't want to re-do the nightmare that was setting up ilbot
19:24 Calinou I can't, I only have a few spare GB on the VPS
19:24 Calinou and since the .tar.gz is created on the VPS…
19:24 sfan5 you can send it during creation
19:24 Calinou my NAS has like 1.3 TB left, though
19:25 sfan5 the script in the screenshot does exactly that
19:25 sfan5 so i can just $ ssh domain.name ./backup.sh | pv >domain.name_backup_15sep.tar.xz
19:26 Fixer Calinou: meh, at least you can open a port, I can't open a shit
19:26 Calinou sfan5: I want to fully automate the process, I shouldn't have to SSH into the server to do it
19:26 Calinou (so that it happens daily at 3AM or so)
19:26 Calinou (where my connection suffering will be the least visible)
19:26 sfan5 ???
19:26 sfan5 you can literally put that command into a cronjob and it will do what you expect
19:27 sfan5 no interaction required
19:27 sfan5 (this would then be a cronjob on your nas obviously)
19:27 Fixer 1.3 tb left... damn, I still have not find a suitable 1-2tb hdd to buy
19:28 sfan5 Fixer: hgst 2.5" has 1tb models
19:28 Fixer found*
19:28 Fixer sfan5: need 3.5"
19:28 Fixer 7200 rpm
19:28 sfan5 they also have 3.5", dunno about rpm tho
19:28 Fixer i'm leaning toward hgst too
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19:31 Fixer my second 256GB drive for backups is not ... backupy enough and probably older than octacian
19:33 Fixer don't worry i have copies on other external drives too
19:34 Fixer "Today Marks 30 Years Since The Release Of X11"
19:34 tenplus1 and it'll prolly take another 30 years to replace it with wayland :)
19:34 Fixer raise your hand if you used linux during XFREE times
19:34 tenplus1 o/
19:34 Fixer o/
19:34 * tenplus1 had redhat running on his Amiga
19:35 Calinou sfan5: not sure if I can set up cron jobs on my NAS
19:35 Calinou also, my key has a passhrase
19:35 Calinou phrase*
19:35 Calinou and I still haven't figured out how to use cron to SSH servers requiring a key with a passphrase :P
19:36 Calinou ssh-agent is good for sessions, but can you set it once and forget about it, including for cron jobs?
19:36 sfan5 well i'd set up a different key just for backups
19:36 Calinou yeah, but then the private key must not leak at all
19:36 Calinou (if it's only on my NAS, it probably won't)
19:36 sfan5 and then set up sshd to only allow that key to call the backup script
19:37 sfan5 Fixer: hgst does not seem to have 2.5" with less than 4tb
19:37 sfan5 but those that they have are 7200rpm
19:38 * tenplus1 wonders how many 90min tape cassettes it would take to bacup server
19:38 Fixer hmmm, still shitty price for 1tb
19:41 Calinou sfan5: less?
19:41 Calinou or more?
19:41 sfan5 less
19:41 Calinou hmm, why
19:46 rubenwardy Calinou, I personally version control my configs
19:47 rubenwardy and I have a bash script which theoretically could create my server from that repo
19:47 rubenwardy however the repo doesn't include applications, so it would be a shell server
19:47 Calinou meh, linear backups will do, I don't change configs often
19:47 Calinou backing up game data isn't important, it can be re-downloaded easily
19:47 Calinou (except for Minetest world; I also need to figure backing up both the PostgreSQL databases, and the world files at once)
19:48 rubenwardy buutt buutt - version control all the things
19:48 Calinou (how can I ensure both are synchronized when backing things up, without stopping the Minetest server?)
19:50 TommyTreasure hate to burst in, but can someone guide me to the proper way to install custom skins for a multi-user server? thanks in advance
19:52 TommyTreasure not with a mod, a customized 2d or 3d skin that a player had created for their own account
19:53 tenplus1 if you use simple_skins you can have the character_1 to character_??? in the list and character_900 to character_999 as custom skins you can set using  /setskin <player> <number>
19:54 TommyTreasure would that keep other players from using that skin?  and thanks for your response
19:54 tenplus1 yeah, it's setup for custom skins
19:54 tenplus1 we use it on Xanadu... 1-75 is the global skins for any player and 900 to 952 are custom (they dont appear on list)
19:54 TommyTreasure gotcha!  nice simple method
19:55 TommyTreasure thank you!
19:58 RobbieF joined #minetest-hub
19:59 tenplus1 hi robbie
20:04 RobbieF Hi tenplus1
20:04 tenplus1 o/
20:05 Shara TommyTreasure: that's the mod used on DL as well
20:05 Shara And sorry I couldn't help with it earlier. I didn't realise you meant without a mod
20:10 tenplus1 nitefolks :) o/
20:10 tenplus1 left #minetest-hub
20:17 RobbieF have a great weekend all. Sorry been so absent lately. Entirely swamped.
20:17 RobbieF left #minetest-hub
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20:21 TommyTreasure i'm already using u_skins, but my previous server used both, and they didn't seem to have any conflict
20:24 nerzhul you can set the ssh key passphrase in ~/.ssh/config
20:26 Calinou https://www.patreon.com/godotengine
20:26 Calinou the Godot Patreon reached its 100% goal, a.k.a $3,000/month :D
20:40 lisac Calinou, save up for a few months and buy a government position in Serbia
20:40 lisac :P
20:40 lisac also, Godot is awesome.
20:41 Fixer i like to live dangerously https://i.imgur.com/k8iVMFr.jpg
20:42 Krock moooo
20:43 nerzhul Calinou, good news
20:43 Fixer "Susan Mauldin, the person in charge of the Equifax's data security, has a bachelor's degree and a master of fine arts degree in music composition from the University of Georgia"
20:44 Fixer loosing data as in art
20:45 Krock nerzhul, tested the channels. Works good. There are some not addressed comments around that should be handled
20:45 paramat joined #minetest-hub
20:46 nerzhul Krock, ty, i address your comments
20:46 nerzhul (2 hours ago)
20:46 nerzhul i should finish to address sfan5 comments & rebase
20:47 Krock nerzhul, not only speaking of my comments ;)
20:47 nerzhul :)
20:48 nerzhul https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/Q​IjPgP-WZxvRIfCGLwZSsdRfL-0HQ7UKnvc_npFtmE​lUy0zZogqlDn41yJ3yQuU9IYLUni9E7eZjLFH-o1I​vFoEl9qUEsE64GZGXHzriOCgBEdC0FjGny-sPtPaS​sqo2490DKZr7H1ffc5lgJfLq3GU=w500-h500-n
20:49 lisac Good night comrades. Sleep well.
20:54 Fixer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akbDhAq94VE that bass is amazing
20:54 Krock somehow cute doggies
21:09 paramat Shara checking player position is lightweight but probably best done say once a second, not much faster, so you wouldn't be able to control a completely smooth skybox transition even if it was possible. so might as well use a small number of manually made transition skyboxes, at least for the moment
21:11 Shara paramat: if it's too noticeable, then it's not worth it either way.
21:11 Shara And sadly I notice things like that way too easily :P
21:11 Shara It's why I've not tried it up until now
21:11 paramat yeah it would go in steps :)
21:15 IhrFussel Does minetest.get_player_privs() read the entire auth file or how does it get the list of privs?
21:16 sfan5 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/​blob/master/builtin/game/auth.lua#L60
21:16 Fixer i love caverealms
21:16 Fixer it is so good
21:18 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/Ax4KvdM.jpg
21:20 Fixer slippery in action
21:21 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/0kuTHWt.png
21:22 garywhite hello
21:25 Shara Fixer: no green flowworms :(
21:25 Calinou sofar: the texture pack on Inside the Box looks *really* good
21:25 Shara glowworms*
21:25 Calinou what's the license of the textures? these just look so much better than the defaults for some reason
21:26 Krock public domain, see credits room
21:26 Calinou oh, nicze
21:26 Calinou nice*
21:26 Krock imported from a minecraft pack
21:27 Fixer a lot of plants are displaced up :/
21:28 paramat original caverealms is too over-decorated for me, the lite version looks more tasteful
21:28 Shara :D
21:28 paramat (assuming it is actually more restrained)
21:29 Shara It adds content, but also removes some things
21:29 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/DxLjzOX.png view of the bug
21:30 paramat to create smooth skybox transitions you would need to auto-blend between 12 large images, which would be too intensive to do 10 times a second for 20 players
21:30 Shara Most of the added content was adding use to things so far, like glow obsidian building materials
21:31 paramat you could pre-generate many stages but that takes a lot of memory to store
21:31 Krock Fixer, so called "magic mushrooms" ;)
21:31 Shara paramat: what if you are not looking at seperate images, but one image with ^[colorize?
21:32 Shara would that help things at all?
21:32 Shara I'm wonder specifically about the normal space to red space transition on other_worlds
21:33 Shara wondering*
21:33 paramat you'd still need to auto generate 6 large images in-game or store many stages
21:33 Shara okay, was hoping it would be handled differently, but I guess not
21:34 Shara have never looked at the code
21:35 paramat i suspect noticeable steps are inevitable, but then i accept abruptness in MT, maybe it's better than no transition for you?
21:36 Shara I'm really not sure what's best :)
21:36 Shara Yay, another server has converted to CRL :)
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22:32 Fixer "A number of HP device owners are complaining of seeing black screens for around five to 10 minutes after entering their Windows login information."
22:32 Fixer nah, this is fine
22:38 tumeninodes joined #minetest-hub
22:39 tumeninodes paramat: a couple of textures for testing are avail https://github.com/minetest/minetest_g​ame/issues/1570#issuecomment-329914224
22:40 paramat ok
22:41 * tumeninodes dislikes pine needles. Is why I cut down all Pines on my property :P
22:43 paramat will try the texture
22:43 paramat .. s
22:44 tumeninodes ... es
22:44 tumeninodes afk
23:59 Fixer *,.....,*

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