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IRC log for #minetest, 2017-08-26

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02:33 Errante minetest, on windows, dies with fatal error of access violation when a trusted mod tries to require sockets.core
02:37 rubenwardy it definitely shouldn't do that :)
02:37 rubenwardy are you doing    local ie = minetest.request_insecure_environment
02:37 rubenwardy then   ie.require("sockets.core")
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02:41 tumeninodes celeron55: wish I could let you have fun figuring out the issue with my Digitech RP80 :P
02:43 Errante rubenwardy: yes, Im using kaeza irc mod with his special setup for windows
02:43 tumeninodes sat in a basement in New England for 1+1/2 years and moisture got to it, but only affected the drum beats components. SO I just resort to beat-boxing :D
02:48 Errante I kind of lack skills and resources to debug and remake it
02:48 Errante Ive tried to recompile luasockets with cygwin but its painful
02:49 Errante would it be easier with gnu?
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02:59 Errante kaeza's spacial setup for windows mentions that it would need to recompile luasockets for lua51.dll from minetest's bin folder and made a prebuilt luasocket and also uploaded makefile, but both are offline now on dropbox
03:00 LazyJ kaeza's dropbox?
03:01 Errante there are dropbox profiles?
03:02 LazyJ Not sure if "profile" is the term but I do know Dropbox changed how files can be publicly accessed this past spring.
03:03 LazyJ Caused a big headache for me because that is where I kept some png images that I use on the forums.
03:03 LazyJ Now each individual file has to be set to allow public access instead of having a "Public" folder like Dropbox used to.
03:05 LazyJ If kaeza changed a file name or has not set those files to be publicly accessible, then he may have forgotten.
03:10 Errante Im trying to plug dogecoin in minetest, through a mod. I choose dogecoin because there is a bitcoin mod already. I dont have any code yet, since jsonrpc4lua isnt working for me.
03:11 Errante I would like to take this idea for the forum
03:13 Errante I thought on some chat commands, like /doge balance, /doge send Errante 10,/doge send Do6ec0in4dd2e55 20
03:14 Errante /doge receive
03:14 Errante transactions could be verified by 3rdparty
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03:17 Errante I wonder how this could be used to solve some people's cry about a central authentication
03:17 Errante sorry spam
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06:13 MinetestBot [git] rubenwardy -> minetest/minetest: Check item_drop amount clientside (#6242) ad9677a https://git.io/v5OMr (2017-08-26T06:11:59Z)
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06:18 MinetestBot [git] rubenwardy -> minetest/minetest: Add on_grant and on_revoke callbacks (#4713) 096ea03 https://git.io/v5OMX (2017-08-26T06:17:05Z)
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06:27 Emerald2 Is anyone else having problems with lots of bots on their server all the time?
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06:45 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Android stepheight: Only increase if 'touching ground' (#6313) 0e0643d https://git.io/v5ODB (2017-08-26T06:45:09Z)
06:45 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Mgfractal: Use 'switch case' instead of 'if else' (#6314) e55aeec https://git.io/v5ODR (2017-08-26T06:43:50Z)
06:51 jas_ Emerald2 not tjat im aware but I ow would i know?
06:52 Emerald2 They all seem to have 3 numbers after their names and they mostly congregate at spawn and don't really do much.
06:52 jas_ Not yr lyysyy ystpyeytaykiyhyg ytmyytyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyydtyfyyyyyyy
06:52 jas_ Yyyyyyyyy
06:52 Emerald2 Except be a total waste of space and a lot of login and logout messages.
06:53 Emerald2 Cat on the keyboard? XD
06:53 jas_ I sweat a lot and am trying to use phone to type
06:54 jas_ They dont seem to be native english speaking
06:54 jas_ Some text looks like japanese or some such
06:54 Emerald2 I have no idea what they're saying. Apparently there's a guy in China who runs a lot of the bots.
06:54 jas_ I play with them.  If they r bots.. They r of hifh quality imo
06:55 Emerald2 I'm not sure how our server owner tells the bots from the players. They're really getting out of hand though.
06:55 jas_ I dont think theyre bots right now.  I think they r mobile users
06:55 Emerald2 The name and what they're doing seems to be a good clue in.
06:55 jas_ They play build chat
06:56 Emerald2 We get some mobile users too, they actually play the game though.
06:56 jas_ They act to me like regular mboile players
06:56 Emerald2 maybe yours aren't bots then?
06:56 jas_ Only new locale
06:56 jas_ !server dcbl
06:56 MinetestBot jas_: dcbl | dcbl.duckdns.org | Clients: 4/20, 2/6 | Version: 0.5.0-dev / dcbl | Ping: 119ms
06:56 jas_ Idk.  I believe they r human
07:01 MinetestBot [git] bendeutsch -> minetest/minetest: Alternative code for slipping (#6256) fc13c00 https://git.io/v5OD9 (2017-08-26T07:01:09Z)
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07:42 fireglow !seen DS
07:42 MinetestBot fireglow: ds was last seen at 2017-01-12 17:21:34 UTC on #minetest
07:42 fireglow !seen DS-minetest
07:42 MinetestBot fireglow: ds-minetest was last seen at 2017-08-15 10:04:04 UTC on #minetest-de
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07:44 MinetestBot [git] Ekdohibs -> minetest/minetest: Add '@n' escape sequences and some documentation on translated strings. 5a6618c https://git.io/v5OSl (2017-08-26T07:43:08Z)
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07:47 zahran https://pastebin.com/tsHWAWF0
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08:53 hisforever Hi is there ant tourtals on how to do a fountain?
08:54 hisforever and water features
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09:25 Megaf celeron55, Morning, so, the latest big project of Mighty Car mods, there's this car, from Japan, they like it a lot, is a small car, 4x4 and powerful. They wanted to import to Australia, but by the law they can't import that car. So they got the car chopped in half, and got all the bits and pieces shipped, as parts. The got a slightly different model of the car from Australia, and now they are transfering all parts from the Japan car to the Australian
09:25 Megaf one. I'd say that's difficult and it's not breaking.
09:35 celeron55 i hate bureaucracy and don't find it or working around it interesting at all
09:36 celeron55 and i mean
09:36 celeron55 there's nothing technically difficult in that task either
09:37 celeron55 all working parts, just bolt out and in
09:37 celeron55 boring
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12:30 habeangur Hi, any oil mod for minetest?
12:31 habeangur I've seen oil(not now, months ago) on servers but I don't know which it is in which mod
12:31 habeangur Out`Of`Control: any idea?
12:37 habeangur sfan5: you have oil mod?
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12:48 sfan5 my oil mod is very outdated
12:48 sfan5 pipeworks/technic might have what you're looking for
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13:01 habeangur sfan5: I didn't find in your Github
13:01 habeangur sfan5: oil mod
13:01 sfan5 it's not on github
13:02 habeangur ok
13:03 habeangur I'm making a mod and I want to use oil as its fuel, Is requiring user to install pipeworks just because of oil in it a good idea?
13:06 Krock if there's another mod which contains oil, you could optional-dep on both and check whether is used (or none)
13:08 habeangur Krock: yes, but I mean user will have to install a big pipeworks just because of the small oil in it, also oil won't be optional-dep
13:08 habeangur as user needs this to make the mod really working
13:09 sfan5 you should really depend on pipeworks
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13:13 habeangur sfan5: which one is more popular?pipeworks or technic?
13:13 sfan5 idk
13:14 habeangur thanks for answering, sfan5, Krock
13:22 Krock pipeworks 27% (36),  technic 15% (20)  where the numbers are the amount of servers in the server list
13:23 Krock so pipeworks is more popular for servers - but it might be a bit different for singleplayer worlds
13:23 sy you need both for oil
13:25 Krock you need homedecor for oil extract
13:27 sy uh no
13:29 Krock why uh no? https://github.com/minetest-mods/homedecor_m​odpack/blob/master/homedecor/crafts.lua#L307
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13:46 sy you don't need it to get oil
13:53 Krock but you can get it to get oil
13:57 habeangur Krock: homedecor has oil, too?
13:57 habeangur lemme see
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14:02 Krock strangely you also get the bottle for it when crafting the oil with six leaves
14:05 habeangur Krock: "the bottle"?
14:05 Krock vessel. bag. container to put the oil in
14:06 habeangur oil extract seems fine, it's easy to craft and also homedecor is even more popular than pipeworks and technic
14:09 Krock homedecor, 56 servers, 44% of all public ones. indeed, might be a better choice if the oil is worthful enough for your purposes
14:09 habeangur Krock: I don't get "a bottle", I get an oil extract which is both oil and bottle(bottle is not a seperated thing)
14:09 Krock never said it would be separate
14:09 habeangur Krock: what's strange?
14:10 Krock can we drop this topic?
14:10 habeangur Krock: yes
14:11 habeangur Krock: is that chart in the wiki frequency updated?
14:11 Krock see history. it's not updated that frequently
14:16 habeangur Krock: what's 16mb.com?
14:16 Krock hostinger
14:19 habeangur hmm, just 2 dollars a month
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16:00 IhrFussel !tell Errante I run my server since May 2016 and I see no real difference between the behavior of mobile users now and pre-prefix names era... I highly doubt that the p0layers with the Names + numbers are "bots": 1. They seem to normally walk around 2. They seem to try to attack others 3. They ALWAYS find the correct way to a certain house or building
16:00 MinetestBot IhrFussel: I'll pass that on when Errante is around
16:02 IhrFussel !Errante One reason why they have these names is because the devs of the app they use avoid the "username cannot be empty" error on connec
16:02 IhrFussel Oops
16:02 IhrFussel !tell !Errante One reason why they have these names is because the devs of the app they use avoid the "username cannot be empty" error on connect
16:02 MinetestBot IhrFussel: yeah, sure, whatever
16:03 Krock IhrFussel, maybe these players just have the entire map in their head to find you
16:05 IhrFussel Krock, jokes aside I don't think there is a bot that's intelligent enough to act like a real human...some say "but they just stand somewhere and log off after a while" that was ALWAYS the case, it's because they have the MT app in the background or they are losing the connection
16:06 Krock kids, trying to do something and find something else to do
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16:08 IhrFussel But I gotta say sometimes it's weird how my servers gets suddenly filled with 15+ mobile users in a matter of minutes...but that could have many reasons (popular server crashed, popular server reached max users, certain apps "feature" certain servers)
16:09 Krock or schools, either in classroom or pause?
16:11 IhrFussel Yeah that's possible too...and it would make sense cause they stay for 1-2 hours and then leave again (i mean they don't just stay at the same spot in that time, they just seem to have no time left anymore)
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16:21 habeangur IhrFussel: bots?
16:22 habeangur IhrFussel: we have minetest bots?
16:24 IhrFussel habeangur, Errante talked about "bots" in MT ... you can read it in the IRC logs http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/2017-08-26
16:26 IhrFussel IMO these (or at least most of them) are not bots, they are just clueless mobile users who probably don't even know that they play on a "Minetest" server cause their app is called "Exploration" or something like that
16:28 IhrFussel I mean I play ~ 10 hours per DAY on my server (yes I'm that crazy) so I watch them very closely when they join
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16:37 Krock IhrFussel, and in your curriculum vitae there will be an entry "Active Minetest player for X years" ;)
16:39 twoelk actually nowadays there might even be jobs where a having been an admin on a games server might be usefull :-P
16:49 IhrFussel =P mostly I'm just standing somewhere on the map working on the server code in another window haha
16:51 nore <habeangur> sfan5: which one is more popular?pipeworks or technic?
16:51 nore technic depends on pipeworks
16:51 nore So every server you'll find with technic will also have pipeworks
16:56 IhrFussel And every server with those 2 mods will crash a lot
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17:34 habeangur IhrFussel: I thought there are minetest bots, this was the idea which came to me months ago, I came here and they said there is not such thing but the code is open and you can do it yourself
17:35 habeangur IhrFussel: however, I didn't make minetest bot(yet), and I was thinking someone else finally made it
17:35 habeangur nore, thanks for answering
17:35 habeangur IhrFussel: lol
17:36 habeangur IhrFussel: if I coded them, I may come test on your server :p
17:37 IhrFussel habeangur, the question is what is the benefit? Having some random bots connected to a server? Usually people code bots for a certain purpose
17:38 habeangur IhrFussel: you can think they are new AIs
17:38 habeangur IhrFussel: my idea is not a bot to be online when a player isn't
17:39 habeangur IhrFussel: they are new players for themselves and somehow like a mob
17:39 habeangur IhrFussel: well this is my idea
17:39 IhrFussel You could create an ingame spam bot but it would be very easy to find out
17:39 habeangur IhrFussel: hey, not spam
17:40 IhrFussel What you think would be wayy better as mod or even as part of the engine
17:40 habeangur IhrFussel: making a bot with a enough good AI is not really easy
17:41 habeangur IhrFussel: no not a mod or such thing
17:41 twoelk habeangur: there once was a bot that travelled red crab's server to make a copy of the map.
17:41 IhrFussel No but again why would someone spend so much time on it? People won't get money for it
17:42 IhrFussel Most bots either advertise something or the programmers have a contract with certain companies about "spying"
17:42 habeangur twoelk: can you give me more information about it, especially its source code!
17:42 habeangur IhrFussel: I'm a bot
17:42 habeangur IhrFussel: spend time on what?
17:43 IhrFussel Spend time on coding a bot...for free
17:43 IhrFussel With no profit
17:44 twoelk let me search the redcrab thread - I can't remember the source code ever published but there is the map discover mod that teleports the player around in an automated pattern
17:44 habeangur IhrFussel: if you mean "money" by profit, Minetest developers don't get money
17:44 habeangur twoelk: wait
17:45 habeangur twoelk: my idea is this: a program which connects to a server and using minetest protocol, does someting
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17:45 habeangur twoelk: making such a mod is not that hard
17:46 habeangur twoelk: and my idea is not "a mod"
17:47 twoelk https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=2950 have a look at this
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17:51 habeangur seems an old post
17:52 habeangur yes 2012
17:53 habeangur it really eats bandwidth
17:53 john_cephalopoda Hey, my player camera is in the height of 3 blocks instead of 2 on servers I tested, it's still on 2 when I play the minimal test singleplayer though
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17:54 IhrFussel habeangur, the MT devs do it for a certain purpose that makes sense...they offer/improve a game engine that's used by many people ... but a bot that just connects to a server and acts like a human doesn't seem senseful
17:55 john_cephalopoda Latest git master.
17:55 IhrFussel john_cephalopoda, the dev version is not compatible with 0.4.16 and older anymore
17:56 john_cephalopoda Ah, server-client incompatibility. I'll check out the stable-0.4 branch.
17:56 IhrFussel john_cephalopoda, yes the next big release will be 0.5.0 which means many new features but also lots of breakage
17:57 habeangur IhrFussel: if it doesn't make sense to me, so I won't do it but if it is I'll do
17:57 john_cephalopoda 0.4 has been around for ages. I remember it from when I was still active here. That was over 4 years ago :O
17:57 twoelk https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=127893#p127893 here's the first post explaining Luigi's mission on redcrab. the first sightings are mentioned a bit earlier on the same page
17:58 habeangur IhrFussel: anyway, it's just a good/bad idea yet
17:58 IhrFussel There will be a 0.4.17 in a few months I think but it will NOT contain the new features...any server/client that uses 0.5.0 will not be able to play (properly) on/with a <=0.4.16 server/client
17:59 IhrFussel habeangur, so what you mean is they just do it for fun or because they are bored since there is no other reason behind it
18:00 habeangur IhrFussel: "they"?
18:02 IhrFussel They = anyone who codes such a bot ... again: There are many types of bots out there but usually they make sense...they don't simply connect to a server to "play" human...they either try to do harm to the server, advertise on the server or other stuff
18:04 habeangur IhrFussel: "anyone who codes such a bot" doesn't exist yet
18:04 habeangur IhrFussel: let's forget about it
18:05 IhrFussel Well some seem to think the bots do exist and they play on their servers
18:06 * twoelk imagines a herd of bots connecting to servers to build an empire - waiting to escape the virtuell world
18:08 habeangur twoelk: cool
18:08 habeangur twoelk: we need a team of AI experts first
18:09 habeangur an API would be fine too
18:10 twoelk didn't the freeminer guys use some bots for connection stress tests? can't remember wether the avatars moved though
18:14 habeangur really?
18:15 habeangur twoelk: more info pls
18:16 * twoelk runs and hides
18:18 IhrFussel habeangur, you seem to have no clue about programming bots and just wait for someone to feed you the source code
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18:18 habeangur IhrFussel: no
18:19 habeangur IhrFussel: I don't want to start this timekiller low priority project now
18:19 habeangur (which some people say this doesn't make sense)
18:20 habeangur IhrFussel: but If there is already such thing, I would like to know about it
18:20 IhrFussel Well I said that because the way you described your bot ideas didn't sound like the bots would have any purpose... twoelk just mentioned another purpose for bots: stress tests
18:22 habeangur IhrFussel: let's simply forget my bot idea
18:24 twoelk nah, rather go on and make a list off things a bot could be used for - others might get interested - you are not the first playing with the idea
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18:38 habeangur twoelk: my idea is to make an API, then people can do whatever they want with it
18:41 habeangur twoelk: map extractor, spaming and attacking the server(not good but it will be possible...), act like a human, act like a mob, trading, attacking other players, hirable(as a soldier?or the one who defends your home), etc
18:42 habeangur twoelk: but all these can be a lot easier done simply via mods
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19:18 sy MinetestBot!
19:18 MinetestBot sy!
19:18 sy wow that was fast
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19:28 jcjordyn120 is there any way to password protect a server?
19:29 jcjordyn120 not the users, but the server itself?
19:29 Krock https://github.com/minetest/minetest/b​lob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1095
19:30 Krock ^ jcjordyn120, only valid for new users but I think that's fine too, isn't it?
19:30 Krock otherwise you don't need to announce it on the list
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19:38 MinetestBot Errante: Aug-26 16:00 UTC <IhrFussel> I run my server since May 2016 and I see no real difference between the behavior of mobile users now and pre-prefix names era... I highly doubt that the p0layers with the Names + numbers are "bots": 1. They seem to normally walk around 2. They seem to try to attack others 3. They ALWAYS find the correct way to a certain house or building
19:40 Errante got a gnubox, but it runs lua 5.3 :(
19:47 Errante irc mod seens to ask for lua 5.1
19:48 sfan5 minetest can't use anything other than lua 5.1
19:51 Errante :( downloading lua 5.1 sources. could it be 5.1.5?
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19:53 sfan5 it can't link to system-wide lua either
19:53 sfan5 you're best off just installing luajit
19:59 Errante luajit is avaliable
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20:34 Fixer lol
20:34 Fixer speaking about bots
20:34 Fixer i've joined dcbl server and found out strange player, its chat was very strange
20:34 Fixer like from neural network bot
20:44 habeangur Fixer: how it was strange?
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20:44 Fixer strange unnatural language
20:45 habeangur Fixer: I've seen many strange people on Liberty Land
20:45 Fixer maybe text was even translated
20:46 habeangur Fixer: yea
20:46 habeangur Fixer: I've seen these
20:46 habeangur strange language
20:47 habeangur 3 years old language
20:47 habeangur I mean they are like a baby who just started speaking!
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20:58 * Raven262 has seen worse.
21:01 Raven262 Fixer, ever happened to you that some random player stalks you around the map, doesn't speak and does strange things (placing blocks around in patterns). When you try to communicate with it, it ignores you as if it doesn't understand a word. But sometimes, while you are being stalked by it on a regular basis, it lets out a few words. The thing is that these few words can always have a variety of meanings, and are not in any way
21:01 Raven262 connected to the current situation. There, that was the strangest experience i had in minetest yet (stayed there just to see what will happen :P)
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21:04 habeangur Raven262: I didn't see such player, but I've heard of a player who was making walls around other players
21:04 Raven262 That can be seen around all the time
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21:05 habeangur twoelk|2: twoelkv1.0 is good enough, we don't need the 2nd version
21:05 Raven262 some servers allow players to suffocate each other by placing them inside walls :P
21:05 habeangur heh
21:07 habeangur Raven262: I think hitting them via sword is easier than making a wall around them, they can teleport anyway.
21:08 Raven262 well, yea
21:09 habeangur Raven262: but making a TNT wall around them would be good, but many servers disable tnt :(
21:09 Raven262 Cause of laaaaaaag
21:09 Raven262 A good thing i think
21:10 habeangur Raven262: because of lag they disable it?
21:10 Raven262 Yep
21:10 Raven262 You can't avoid protection using tnt
21:11 Raven262 so this is the only reason.
21:12 habeangur Raven262: how I can't avoid protection?
21:12 habeangur I place it near the unclaimed land, then BOOM!
21:12 Raven262 It won't damage the protected area :P
21:13 Raven262 Ask tenplus1 when hes around
21:13 Raven262 He is working on those stuff
21:13 habeangur Raven262: ok
21:14 habeangur Raven262: but so bad, not for me but for bad pupil
21:14 Raven262 xD
21:15 habeangur Raven262: the other reason which admins may want to disable it, is that usage of it overground makes it ugly
21:15 MinetestBot [git] tenplus1 -> minetest/minetest_game: TNT: Add explode_center flag fe67ffd https://git.io/v53Cf (2017-08-26T21:14:44Z)
21:15 habeangur wow
21:16 habeangur Raven262: we where talking about TnT and tenplus1 and ...
21:16 rubenwardy lol
21:16 Raven262 The things are happening all the time :P
21:16 rubenwardy I also meant to merge that about 20 minutes ago
21:16 rubenwardy *I actually
21:17 habeangur why you mt developers don't simply merge PRs?
21:17 Raven262 They all have to agree
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21:17 rubenwardy we announce that we're going to merge something usually 10 minutes in advance
21:18 habeangur no no
21:18 rubenwardy to avoid conflicts (multiple people merging at the same time)
21:18 habeangur I mean in Github you don't simply click the merge button, someone else commits with one of you and then PR is closed
21:19 rubenwardy heh, it varies
21:19 habeangur someone else is the one who opened PR
21:21 rubenwardy I tend to use the button unless I'm the author of the PR
21:21 rubenwardy as if I merge my own PRs using a buttons it says authored with GitHub
21:22 habeangur what?
21:22 habeangur rubenwardy: authored with Github?
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22:51 botch I don't suppose anyone uses a touchscreen device for Minetest do you?
22:53 botch ...
22:54 sfan5 on desktop likely not
22:54 sfan5 mobile sure
22:54 Errante I believe the number of mobiles outgrow the number of keyboards
22:55 botch Cool...My specific question is, can you see the minimap on a touchscreen device or is that only an option on a pc/linux/apple option?
22:55 Errante I could activate through minetest.conf
22:55 sfan5 minimap should work
22:55 Errante you*
22:56 botch I use the pc (sometimes) the linux laptop and iMac but I have no experience on a touch screen device.
22:56 botch Could you tell me how to pull up the minimap on a touchscreen device?
22:56 Errante I did run it on a galaxy pocket
22:56 Errante idk
22:56 botch I think all the other controls on a touchscreen device for Minetest is on the internet, but that specifically is not mentioned
22:57 Errante enable_minimap
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